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Post by ditrasetman on Dec 2, 2012 14:51:45 GMT -5
Good afternoon! I just picked up my first phonograph - It's an Edison Fireside Model A! I have three questions:(1)I have noticed that it tends to repeat (like a CD that is scratched). What it will do is play the same part of the cylinder over and over, it won't move on to the next part of the song. What I have found helps it is if I lift up the reproducer and use my finger to remove the gunk that builds up on the needle (stylus?), and then it will usually play correctly until more gunk builds up and it starts to repeat again. Any thoughts? Do I need to remove or replace my stylus or reproducer, or is it an issue of the cylinder I am using? (By the way: the repeating issue could have been because I was not removing the reproducer from the "lock position" where it rests on the wall which says Thomas Edison's name - I am a newbie!). (2) It plays very quietly. My unit is not loud at all, and I am not sure if that is because of the reproducer or because of the horn (see next question). (3) What horn is this? Please see below for a picture of my unit (ignore my bad photo editing skills). I have never seen this horn on any Fireside online. According to my research, the Model A usually had a baby maroon morning glory horn, and the Model B had a cygnet horn. I have a Model A, but the horn I have has a "Cygnet No. 11" decal on top of it, but this does not look like a Cygnet. What is it?? Here is a picture of it:  |
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Post by phonogfp on Dec 2, 2012 15:27:23 GMT -5
If your machine is a Fireside Model A, it will have a small gear change knob on the left side of the machine just below the nut that secures the main shaft. Pulled out to the left is the 4 minute setting. Pushed in toward the right is the 2 minute setting. I don't see a "2 minute/4 minute" decal on your bedplate, so it's possible that yours is a Model B - - 4 minute only.
In either event, you have a Blue Amberol record in place, which is a 4 minute record. If there's a gear change knob on your machine, be sure it's pulled to the left as far as it will go (the shift involves about 1/2 inch lateral motion).
Now for your reproducer. It should be either a Model H or a Model K. If it's a K, remove it from the carriage and be sure it's adjusted to the 4 minute setting.
The quiet playback may be due to a worn or broken stylus. The "gunk" that you describe building up on the stylus leads me to believe it's broken. Try playing the record without the horn attached. If the gunk reappears, I'm betting you need a new stylus. Don't play any more records with this stylus if it keeps behaving that way - you're ruining your record(s).
As for the horn, it certainly isn't a No.11 Cygnet. It appears to be a horn taken out of a small Edison Amberola. It's not original to the Fireside, nor is the crane.
If your stylus needs replacing, there are a number of people who can do that for you.
Good luck!
George P.
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Post by ditrasetman on Dec 2, 2012 18:04:46 GMT -5
George, thanks for the reply. The plaque on the machine (behind where the cylinder is) states that it is a "Model A." The nut that secures the shaft that holds the cylinder on the left side of the machine does have beneath it a tiny gear knob. The gear knob can be pulled out (and spun in both directions). Is that what you are referring to (What do you mean by "pull to the left" or "pushed in toward the right" - do you mean pull it out and spin to the left, or push it in and spin to the right)? If so, does that mean I have a Model A as the plaque suggests? My reproducer says "Model S"? Why would it not say H or K? Did someone put that reproducer in its place? I have seen another Model A Fireside online being sold with a Model S reproducer ( www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/edison-fireside-model-a-phonograph-s-reproducer) Did these ever come with the Model S? Is the Model better or worse? The "repeating/skipping" issue went away once I started placing the reproducer directly on the cylinders (and kept the pin of the reproducer off the "wall"). However, the quiet sound issue is still there. What does a new stylus go for? Couldn't the gunk be from my unused dirty cylinders? I can't find a similar horn anywhere, even wen I google Edison Amberola. |
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Post by martinola on Dec 2, 2012 19:06:50 GMT -5
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Post by phonogfp on Dec 2, 2012 19:24:37 GMT -5
George, thanks for the reply. The plaque on the machine (behind where the cylinder is) states that it is a "Model A." The nut that secures the shaft that holds the cylinder on the left side of the machine does have beneath it a tiny gear knob. The gear knob can be pulled out (and spun in both directions). Is that what you are referring to (What do you mean by "pull to the left" or "pushed in toward the right" - do you mean pull it out and spin to the left, or push it in and spin to the right)? If so, does that mean I have a Model A as the plaque suggests? My reproducer says "Model S"? Why would it not say H or K? Did someone put that reproducer in its place? I have seen another Model A Fireside online being sold with a Model S reproducer ( www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/edison-fireside-model-a-phonograph-s-reproducer) Did these ever come with the Model S? Is the Model better or worse? The "repeating/skipping" issue went away once I started placing the reproducer directly on the cylinders (and kept the pin of the reproducer off the "wall"). However, the quiet sound issue is still there. What does a new stylus go for? Couldn't the gunk be from my unused dirty cylinders? You clearly have a Model A. When I say "pull the gear shift knob to the left" or "push it in toward the right", I'm assuming you're standing directly in front of the machine, facing it. You don't need to spin the knob - just push it in or pull it out. I'd definitely get that 4 minute stylus checked out by a competent repairman. It might be a linkage problem, but that can't really be diagnosed without seeing it. Meanwhile, if you have any 2 minute cylinders, switch the reproducer stylus to "2 minute" and be sure the gear shift knob is pushed in toward the right. "Dirty unused cylinders?" Uh oh. It is highly advisable that you avoid playing dirty records on any antique phonograph. Blue Amberol cylinders such as the one shown in your photo have a plaster core that must not be submerged in water. Wipe those blue cylinders with a clean damp cloth, dry them with a clean dry cloth, and let them air dry for 15 minutes before playing them. George P. |
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Post by ditrasetman on Dec 2, 2012 21:22:44 GMT -5
martinola - how can you tell I have a conventional Model C/H/K top, married with an S tail weight? How can you be sure it is not a complete Model S unit? I am just curious about what it is about the size of the top gives it away. If it is a marriage - is that a really bad thing? How much does that affect the value? Also, why wouldn't you trust it as is? It works - it is just quiet.
Regarding my horn. I am amazed to realize that my horn was the internal horn of an Amerbola. Perhaps it is a bit too quiet because the amberola horn is connected to the reproducer with some sort of rubbery-strethcy tube. (see picture).
Any tips on where to buy the 14" witch's hat horn or the 8 panel Gem or Fireside Morning Glory horn? Which one of these horns used a crane?
Anyone know a competent repairman in Florida? Again - it plays property, it is just quiet (my issue earlier about the repeating/skipping was entirely my fault for not using it with the needle on the cylinder).
I paid $300 at a flea market for this phonograph. Was that fair?
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Post by phonogfp on Dec 2, 2012 22:29:46 GMT -5
This isn't Martin, but I think I can answer your questions. The Model S reproducer had a larger tube plate than the C/H/K reproducers. You can tell an S (or an R) from across the room. If your tail weight says "Model S," there's no doubt it's a marriage. That said, it's still a serviceable reproducer. A working Fireside A with a 2-stylus reproducer for $300 is not a bad deal. Your reproducer playing too quietly isn't the fault of the horn. As I suggested earlier, your linkage may need adjustment. Or the reproducer may just need a good cleaning/rebuild (if it hasn't had a rebuild, it certainly will need that). I've found dead moths, pieces of paper, and cotton stuffed into reproducers I've rebuilt. Any of those things will definitely quiet things down. Both the 14" "witches hat" horn (needs no crane) and the 8 panel Gem/Fireside horns (needs a crane) are available in reproduction from Ron Sitko (he has the cranes too). He has no website, and he's on vacation until January 1, 2013, but his number is (518) 371-8549. Other dealers sell them too, but Ron's prices are as low or lower than most anybody's. I'm sure there are competent repairmen in Florida (where in Florida?). If no one from Florida responds here, try the Talking Machine Forum: forum.talkingmachine.info/Good luck! George P. |
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Post by martinola on Dec 3, 2012 3:21:56 GMT -5
Thanks George! I couldn't have said it better! ditrasetman: I think you have a pretty neat machine there. It sounds like you got a pretty good deal. It will be worth trying to optimize your playback issues. My advice concerning the reproducer stems from your complaint of "gunk" on the stylus (not a good sign) and complaint of quiet reproduction (also not a good sign). I'm sure that a repairman can improve its performance, but in the end it may be cheaper to get a reproducer that's already in good shape. That said, it seems you are well on your way to getting this sorted out. Welcome to the gentle madness of owning a cylinder phonograph!  -Martin |
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Post by ditrasetman on Dec 3, 2012 19:05:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies!
I am in South Florida, so if anyone knows any repairmen down here please let me know!
Unfortunately, the guys on Antique Radio Forums were quite down on my "Frankenhorn." Once I replace the horn with the proper witches hat or morning glory horn, and swap out the tail weight and service the reproducer (or replace the reproducer with another Model K), my phonograph should be in good shape. Right?
The only other issue I see is that I appear to be missing the two minute stylus. Someone probably removed it at some point.
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Post by martinola on Dec 4, 2012 2:09:26 GMT -5
Yes, assuming that the mechanics are running right, you should be good to go. Let us know how it's going. Regards, Martin |
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