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Post by dedune on Mar 31, 2013 21:09:36 GMT -5
Well, after the relatively easy success with my Edison Standard B cleanup, I thought I would try something alot more ambitious for my 2nd Project. I just purchased this Fireside B bedplate for $13 plus shipping, as a starting point to completely refinish and restore an entire machine. Starting with this rusted out bedplate. Given it's condition, I figure on completely stripping the remaining finish and giving it a new one. From the picture, it looks like the feed screw and carriage rod are both beyond hope. In any event, I will probably be a very long time hunting down all the parts to go with this rusty gold. Will have to find a case that is messed up just as much, so it can be refinished as well. The serial number is #102314. Can we tell what year it left the factory? Verify that this is a Model B? (That would make it strictly a 4 min machine I think???) Would it have been a Model H or Diamond B reproducer? What parts might be interchangeable with a Model A Fireside? Can I use the same Mandrel, motor, underside gearing? Any useful suggestions on my new project would be appreciated. Attachments:
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Post by maroongem on Apr 1, 2013 3:49:54 GMT -5
From what I can see, this is a Combination Type A Fireside, as I can see the 2/4 gear unless the spacer to blank off 2M is there. From this angle I can't tell. Dating later Edison machines is a difficult task as there are no factory records that I'm aware of. If your machine left as an A, it would have come with the Combination Mod.K Reproducer for 2/4M play.
BillF
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Post by dedune on Apr 1, 2013 5:49:39 GMT -5
Here is another angle pic. Attachments:
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Post by dedune on Apr 1, 2013 5:50:17 GMT -5
And a close up of the gearing. Attachments:
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Post by martinola on Apr 1, 2013 15:04:26 GMT -5
I don't know very much about Firesides, but this one is most certainly labeled as a model B. Of the machines I've noted, it is solidly in the serial numbers that seem to be the domain of the model B (about 102,000 and up). As to the difference in gearing, it may be rather like the difference between the Standard D vs the Standard E, which are very similar in appearance. In any case, I'll be interested in seeing the progress of this restoration.
Regards, Martin
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Post by dedune on Apr 1, 2013 21:40:45 GMT -5
Found this pic of an old ad online. Looks like the A and B are identical except they took the 2nd gear off of the Mandrel, and put that spacer in to lock the knob. So I should be able to use a Model A feed screw as a replacement. First things first though. Once I get it, gotta soak it in penetrating oil to try and get those rusty screws out without breaking them. Get past that hurdle and on to the wire brush wheel. Attachments:
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Post by dedune on Apr 2, 2013 8:12:06 GMT -5
Shopping around for parts, am I right in thinking that the Fireside Motor/lower gear works is identical to that in the Standard models?
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Post by martinola on Apr 2, 2013 11:28:27 GMT -5
dedune - While the Standard and the Fireside share some parts, the motors can't be said to be identical. I hear that one or two gears in the cluster are different, and I know for a fact that the winding shaft is a different size. I'd stick to getting a Fireside motor and avoid the possibilities of a mis-match. Regards, Martin
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Post by dedune on Apr 4, 2013 16:22:50 GMT -5
Sounds like good advice Martin. I will hold out for the proper parts.
Just got the bedplate in the mail today. I have few issues:
1) Can anyone tell me how to remove the Patent plate without breaking anything? (Other than the obvious "Very Carefully" :-) Are those just nails holding it in place?
2) Upon close examination, it looks like one of the screws for the hinge has broken off inside the screwhole. Any machine geniuses know how to extract it?
3) The feed screw is definitely shot, rust pitting along more than half the worm grooves. Does the gear separate from the worm screw? The gear looks in good shape.
4) Carriage rod is also rust pitted. Am I correct in thinking that it would not work to try and fill the pits and put some kind of finish(Like nickel plating?) over it? I except smoothness is very critical to the operation of the carriage arm.
That is it for now. More to come I am sure, but this is where I am at after just now getting it apart.
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Post by martinola on Apr 4, 2013 20:25:14 GMT -5
The patent plate pins can be carefully un-bent from the back side of the bedplate. They probably will snap off where they were bent over. If they do, just glue them back with super glue. I would vote for replacement rod and feedscrew. - Martin
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Post by dedune on Apr 24, 2013 20:07:59 GMT -5
An update. I am having trouble removing the old finish from the bedplate. Tried a wire wheel and several commercial water based paint strippers. I am leery of trying anything stronger. I have seen suggestions of using Caustic Soda, but that is more dangerous than I would like to play with. Once I get as far as painting, I found some authentic looking varnish transfer decals at www.Phonodecal.com So my refinishing project wont have those ghostly outlines the water decals leave. Got a feed screw. Bought another Fireside bedplate for $25 that had a good feed screw. Since the feed screws alone can go for $40 plus I can take my part, refinish the 2nd bedplate, and probably resell it to make back my money. I notice the 2nd bedplate does not have a mount hole for the straight horn crane. So, probably a Model B as well. It would be my theory that Edison's factory used whatever Model A bedplates with the mounting hole they had left over for the earliest Model Bs. Bought a complete lower works(Spring motor, gear cluster, governor, frame, brake, screws/springs for mounting to bedplate) for $70 total. It is dirty, greasy, but complete. Only down side is the mainspring is busted, but if I recall correctly I can get a new one for $35. So $105 and some messy cleaning seems a decent deal to me. Just a mandrel and carriage arm away from making some noise.
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Post by gibsonj on Apr 25, 2013 7:44:41 GMT -5
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Post by maroongem on Apr 25, 2013 7:49:52 GMT -5
The bedplate finishes on these and other machines were done with a Japan black (asphaltum) finish. This was a tar based lacquer that I don't think water based strippers are going to remove. I have never had the pleasure of stripping this finish but from what I've read, other collectors have sandblasted, used a petroleum based stripper, wire wheels, etc. You will be very pleased with Greg Cline's decals. The link you provided had an extra period after com and wouldn't work. www.Phonodecal.comBillF
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Post by dedune on Sept 20, 2013 21:35:58 GMT -5
This project progresses slowly, but just purchased a case for my Fireside. Just need a Mandrel and horizontal carriage arm to make this puppy play. The new case brings me two new questions. The first is what color stain should I use when refinishing the case? Fortunately the horn bracket left a patch of original finish to look at. The second question concerns the horn bracket itself. The shape is different than the usual brackets I have seen. Is the rectangle some unusual type of bracket, or was there just something sandwiched between the bracket and the case? Pic of the case back is included.
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Post by martinola on Sept 22, 2013 15:31:59 GMT -5
Hi dedune! I'm glad to see that you are moving forward with the project. From looking at the large size of your photo, I'd guess that the large rectangular shaped plate might have been a spacer. Perhaps the cygnet crane was an early type for an angled carrier arm and the previous owner got a Diamond B reproducer with a horizontal carrier arm. (The cranes were different, but the brackets were the same.) The plate could have been a non-destructive way to alter the position of the crane. The hole configuration is for the typical cygnet crane bracket. The case appears that it was either painted or over coated after the plate was installed, hence the strange rectangular outline. Anyway, the proper crane bracket will be the cygnet type. As far as stain goes, I have had good results using aniline dye powder dissolved in hot water. If you use a fairly dilute "Van d**e Brown" or "Perfect Brown" you will be pretty close to the Edison "Antique Oak" finish. Dark brown grain filler and Amber shellac will help you build up an authentic finish. Here's a link to a restoration I did using this stuff: victrolagramophones.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=repairs&action=display&thread=141Good Luck! Martin
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