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Post by larryh on Dec 21, 2012 17:34:31 GMT -5
The type of material I use to produce the True Tones is extremely touchy as to the results.. I had some trouble getting the exact material recently and thought I had a similar one that would produce the sound satisfactorily. At first I was very happy that I had located a supply that seemed very good, but in some very slight way I kept thinking that it just didn't quite have the clarity and depth that I was used too. I got as far as producing 6 diaphragms but still I kept thinking it was not quite up to par. . I had a patched diaphragm of the usual material and when I put in in the reproducer it instantly was what I recalled it to sound like. I don't know how many people would actually pick up the differences, the ones I produced were very good over all but just had a tiny nagging feeling they weren't quite so good as before. So those will be going in the trash and I will have to come up with the material I need some way. Bottom line is if the quality is not what I have said it will be you won't be receiving one that is short of that standard.
Larry
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Post by larryh on Jan 19, 2013 22:36:30 GMT -5
After some long struggle I finally was able though some You Tube how to videos figure out how to load and move a video to You Tube.. This however is a lousy view of the machine, the sun was washing out the dark color of the machine but the sound is reasonable for a tiny camera mic and You tube restrictions.. Its a Edison of Mel Craigs "In the Garden of Tomrorow" 51528.. Its a record that has a very full sound and displays the abilities well of True Tone Diaphragm I have been so long discussing various ideas for its ultimate construction.. I hope you will enjoy the sound. www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcaWkosXP10&feature=youtu.beLarry
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Post by maroongem on Jan 20, 2013 1:16:14 GMT -5
Sounded great! Very clean. I need to post one with your diaphragm.
Bill
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Post by larryh on Jan 24, 2013 8:43:56 GMT -5
My recording idea was cut short, mostly due to my allowing the camera to fall off the stand I had it on.. After that I had a nasty metalic sound over the music and the sound it self was totally unlike the first video.. Personally I would love to use my cassette deck to transfer sound to a video with a still photo of the machine. But again I am stymied by the lack of ability to figure out the complex steps one needs to accomplish this. I spent a lot of yesterday attempting to google how to do it, but it still never could understand how to do it..
Larry
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Post by lucius1958 on Jan 25, 2013 0:20:42 GMT -5
I don't suppose you have a laptop with a built-in webcam & microphone? I simply use iMovie, if that helps.
BillS
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Post by larryh on Jan 25, 2013 22:57:14 GMT -5
Bill,
No I have a desk top computer by Apple and I am almost totally lost when it comes to trying to figure out what does what an in what order. I am just not made for this digital world I don't think.
I spend a good deal of the past two days attempting to use the Audacity site that a friend suggested I could transfer some cassette recordings of the machine I had made. But it was so frustrating and not going well that I deleted the downloads to the computer of it. I am in awe of those who put up so many good sounding videos and with apparent ease. You must have to have a mind that works that way to accomplish it though.
I did hear from a fellow collector tonight about the Cylinder version I made a few of for Steven of the True Tone type diaphragms. He is very pleased and reported it has similar balance and smoothness of what were harsh sounds with his previous tries. That is good news but having never heard them my self it still is daunting to try to produce them and I have a feeling they will possibly remain a small side line to the disc machine versions.
Larry
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Post by larryh on Feb 1, 2013 13:37:17 GMT -5
As time goes by I am finding that more people are looking to the True Tone as a good alternative to replacing a poor original or other item with lesser quality of sound.
I recently had some inquires from several people, among them the noted Edison Researcher, Author and Collector Tim Fabrizio. Here is the quote he sent me after inquiring about purchasing some for his own restorations and use after hearing the Video I had made for You Tube:
"Cheers--I think you're getting marvelous clarity, and GOOD bass, CONGRATS!" Tim I am still on a slight holding pattern awaiting some material in bulk that I use, its been a struggle to come up with the right product in order to always have some on had as needed. Hopefully that will soon be possible. I also have now a number of the small cylinder versions in use though Steven and his comments have been positive as well. I hope to also get those to the point of producing them easier at some point.
Made my day.
Larry
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Post by larryh on Mar 26, 2013 16:48:06 GMT -5
Naturally I am still experimenting with more ideas. A few seem to enhance what I have accomplished so far. On that topic I found a rather odd thing which I guess is how one stumbles into something when trying various ideas, some work and many don't. I had purchased a lot of materials that I needed hopefully to create diaphragm more readily. However when it came it did not live up to my expectations. I set it aside and tried other things.. Finally one day I decided to try to laminate two pieces just to see what might happen. That little test turned out to get my attention.. Thus a slight variation has been added to my listening. It changed the effect remarkably from the material used alone.
On the topic of listening. I may have mentioned that I dropped my camera right after making the You Tube Video of the Garden of Tomorrow. That ended my attempts. Luckily I thought it rather nicely portrayed the sound.
I wanted to make those who have followed this aware that one of the people using the True Tone diaphragm has added quite a few early Edison recordings to You Tube. His channel is under Lucius1958. He has for the past month or so added quite a number of light classical to classical things with a scattered amount of period vocals. If those who have followed this tread for so long wish they can hear some of the selections under his channel. Most of the recent ones he has placed a rather bright green cloth behind the grill. Most of the ones using the True Tone are shown with that grill cloth. Bill is also a frequent commenter here as well as the Talking Machine group which is where he has a couple links to the videos.
Larry
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Post by lucius1958 on Mar 29, 2013 21:22:43 GMT -5
I have just made a couple of videos comparing the original 'True Tone' with the double-ply version. I used the original reproducer from my C-250 for the single-ply, and a similar Standard reproducer from my A-80 for the new version. I hope that folks with sharper ears than mine will be able to critique them (despite the quality of YouTube audio). The first selection is #50170-L, "Grande Valse de Concert - The Whirlwind" from 1913: The second is #51738-R, "Valencia" from 1926: To rule out differences based on the styli, or other variations in the reproducers, I plan on making another comparison with the diaphragms switched. What do you think? BillS
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Post by larryh on Mar 29, 2013 22:48:07 GMT -5
Bill,
You certainly went to a lot of trouble. And as you say with little positive to show for it.. In fact I prefer the #1 in these videos.
That said, in live listening I am still finding a sound from the second version that I like even though its not apparent in this video.. However the original design works quite well and I have no reason to abandon it either..
In listening here for those who weren't in on the conversations I have to say that most of my listening is in a rather small but reverberant room and I am using a console which tends to send the sound upward so that even in a chair it will put the most sound to your ears where as a upright tends to send much of it over your head.. If I stand up then the upright comes closer to the console sound, but perhaps something about the width of the cabinets enhances ever so slightly the effects of it. I will admit that to my ear and these videos the #1 had it over the #2. The #1 has a more open and airy sound which I knew but the videos really accentuate that effect it would seem.
I doubt that its the reproducers but some reproducers do tend to have a more weakened sound that others. I am not suggesting that is the case here, but it does happen.
Either way I appreciate your efforts and many videos you have recently put on you tube.. Your improved grill looks great as well.
Larry
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Post by larryh on Mar 29, 2013 22:56:43 GMT -5
I will say that just checking it out on the You Tube channel you have as Lucius1958, the sound is somewhat better coming directly from You Tube for what ever reason? I can detect some differences there but still would have to think they both sound pretty close.
Larry
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Post by lucius1958 on Apr 1, 2013 0:21:12 GMT -5
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Post by larryh on Jun 9, 2013 19:35:29 GMT -5
I believe in honesty with all aspects of my work.. I haven't hid how or why I have created the diaphragms.. I do feel that compared to most anything new available the sound is superior. I have had recently a couple of people who while not wanting their refund didn't find the sound exactly to their liking. I suppose that is to be expected since we all hear things differently and there is an inherent sound variation in the diaphragms as the material and production of them by hand will cause some variations. I took to not listing them on ebay for a while but several of those who purchased them suggest that I should make them available again on the site.. Of the near 50 True Tones out in use now only a few people have not found them to be a good way to hear a close resemblance of the original sound. However if one has an excellent original diaphragm then there is a good chance its going to be superior in overall effects. Personally I have never been so lucky as to have one that played that way and I have listened to them since the late 50s. All the edison diaphragms I had Produced distortions that were vexing. In the cases like that my design will play the same records better. I will from time to time have some offered on ebay. I intend shortly here to put a listing in the items for sale area of the group so that those who wish to contact me can should none be available though ebay. I have done this as a project aimed solely at enabling those who need a decent replacement to be able to access it. I am not doing it to make a lot of money, they take time and effort and a lot of listening which if one added it up would come to a slight profit if that. My real satisfaction is in the people who have played them an been pleased with the sound. That was the entire idea. Here is a link to a recently recorded record from You Tube by Glenn. A cup of Coffee and You. www.youtube.com/watch?v=34kjqOduqvULarry
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Post by larryh on Jun 10, 2013 22:03:08 GMT -5
Another selection from Glenn just put on You Tube.. It has even better sound once you get into the record a bit. I love this selection. www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWCjXCSmGA8Larry
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Post by larryh on Aug 7, 2013 10:54:16 GMT -5
I think I should update the activities with the diaphragms in order to keep this thread relevant. Some of the discussions on this matter are also available on the Talking Machine Group.
The most recent developments have centered around the newer version of the two ply true tones for use in the Dance Reproducer. Several people have installed them an reported quite good results. For those who have followed this topic here you may know that I am stuck for some time with only one stylus worth even testing with. That has made my Edisonic reproducer unavailable to hear how the diaphragm may work in my own home and be able make adjustments to the design if possible. I would be most interested in hearing how it performs in that reproducer type. The original design of the True Tone I had installed once in the edisonic heard and to my ear it seemed to be overly loud which was leading to excessive distortion. It may be that the two ply version would be better suited to that application.
The second thing that has been progressing is the work on the cylinder diaphragms. Bill (Lucius1958) has kindly provided a series of videos showing another new diaphragm in use an then comparisons to my experimental design. Again I am hampered by the fact that I have no cylinder machines and am somewhat reluctant to add one to my collection. Still some people are interested in trying them on approval. I think I need more feedback before I can say how well they perform in person.
If someone out there has an edisonic head which is using another new diaphragm I would be interested in providing a Two Ply True Tone for a comparison in sound. If the sound proves acceptable it would be nice if you were able to put up a video of it.
Larry
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