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Post by shockers1 on Mar 19, 2015 23:18:42 GMT -5
Greetings ~ As I am working on my first phonograph, I've encountered a problem that's beside me. The phonograph is completely wound up & will not >> for some reason << wind down. I've replaced the common 14 tooth pinion gear, & the main spring was replaced. Everything spins fluently when the gears are activated w/ my fingers. Also the entire unit was thoroughly cleaned & oiled. The governor appears to be fine, but there isn't a lot of play on the yoke. Though I've researched as much as possible, I am still a self proclaimed rookie. I have 50+ cylinders stored in a Victorian case, & I can't wait to hear them. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!
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Post by lucius1958 on Mar 20, 2015 1:17:49 GMT -5
OK:
First: what model Home do you have? If it is a fairly late model, without the endgate, have you replaced the mandrel bearing? If an earlier model, have you checked the adjustment of the end bearings? Have you checked the belt tension?
You have had the mainspring replaced, and the pinion: presumably, the motor was already wound down when you had them replaced. Did you install the mainspring yourself? Did you check whether it was installed right way round? Did you try winding the motor up a little way, and checking whether it worked?
Have you checked the adjustment of the governor bearings?
There are a number of things that might contribute to this problem...
BillS
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Post by shockers1 on Mar 20, 2015 11:05:36 GMT -5
Thanks so much for your response. The Edison is a banner type w/ the oak green case. It is a model A. Yes it has an endgate, & the mandrel is spinning fluently. Also, the mainspring & pinion where installed correctly. And the governor spins as it should ~ I think. The only thing in question is the adjustment of the end bearings ~ where are they located? Like I stated ~ everything appears fine but when I release the tension lever, but nothing happens. I appreciate any additional information.
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Post by lucius1958 on Mar 21, 2015 3:15:40 GMT -5
The end bearings are on either end of the mandrel shaft: on the endgate, and to the left of the gear cover. There's a set screw and adjustment screw on each.
When you tested the motor, did you try turning it from the gear closest to the spring barrel, or by turning the mandrel?
Have you replaced the belt? If the belt is too tight, it may prevent the motor from turning.
BillS
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Post by shockers1 on Mar 21, 2015 10:15:28 GMT -5
I will check & respond back late this evening. Thanks again Bill for your insight!
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Post by shockers1 on Mar 21, 2015 20:27:37 GMT -5
Yes Bill, one thing's for sure the pulley belts are slippery as the belt will not spin correctly. What would you recommend to completely remove the oil residue from the pulley belts ~ a degreaser? Also, when I tested the motor (gear mechanism), I simply spun the belt pulley & the governor as everything moves as it should. For some reason the motor is not winding down on it's own, for there has to be something inhibiting this from happening. I am still a rookie at this till further notice ~ hopefully it's as simple as an oversight on my part. Oh >>> would you recommend turning the bull gear (the gear closest to the spring barrel) to test the motor? Thanks You, I Really Appreciate Your Knowledge & Patience!!!
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Post by lucius1958 on Mar 21, 2015 21:32:47 GMT -5
Acetone would work as a degreaser for the pulley and belts.
By 'everything', do you mean the spring barrel turns as well?
BTW, do you have a copy of "The Compleat Talking Machine"? It gives many excellent troubleshooting tips.
A quick (though rather drastic) way of unwinding a mainspring would be to use a screwdriver to VERY CAREFULLY disengage the winding pawl from the ratchet. You would have to have a VERY FIRM hold on the crank, though, in order to unwind the spring in a controlled manner, without it doing any damage to the motor or yourself...
One last idea: did you replace the mainspring yourself? It might have been installed the wrong way round...
BillS
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Post by shockers1 on Mar 22, 2015 20:02:48 GMT -5
Bill, you hit the nail on the head ~ "everything" is not spinning in unison>>> the spring barrel is not turning at all. The several times I took the motor assembly apart, I know the spring barrel is "relaxed" within it's attachment to the whole mechanism. What would cause the spring barrel not to engage? The main spring was replaced by Victrola Repair Service, so there's no doubt the spring barrel was installed correctly ~ I hope. Also, to disengage the winding pawl from the ratchet ~ would I wedge the screw driver between the winding pawl to disengage the spring barrel assembly? I will be ordering a copy of "The Compleat Talking Machine" first thing tomorrow. Though this is my first phonograph "project", it certainly won't be my last. For the auctions are plentiful, & there are phonographs for the taking that have been forgotten as they are lost in time. Bill, once again Thank You!!! This has been an excellent learning experience!!!
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Post by lucius1958 on Mar 23, 2015 3:05:02 GMT -5
You speak of the spring barrel being 'relaxed': if you try wiggling it, does it move at all? If you try twisting the spring barrel in its normal direction (downwards if you're in front of it), does the rest of the gear train turn?
As for winding: did you notice that you had increasing resistance until the crank stopped; or was there any sudden lack of resistance?
It's always hard to make a diagnosis from a distance: if you can manage to post some photos, and perhaps a short video, it might make things a little easier.
If you want to try releasing the pawl, I would suggest that you first remove the top works from the bedplate, then remove the bedplate from its frame. That way, you have easier access to the pawl. (Note: I have not had to try this operation myself, so I do not know how well it will work. I know that the motor casting on which the pawl is mounted may be a bit of an obstacle).
BillS
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Post by shockers1 on Mar 23, 2015 23:44:01 GMT -5
Hello again, & thanks again for your advice. I gave you some misinformation on the motor functioning. The main spring is turning & the whole motor is acting as it should. I watch a very detailed video on You Tube, & matched it w/ the motion of my phonograph motor. All appears to be spot on. Bill, if you are interested I will send you the phonograph so you can make the necessary adjustments. Of coarse, I will compensate you for your expertise & know-how. I believe there is one "thing" impeding the motor from performing as it should. I just can't figure it out. If you're interested just let me know what I should send your way, & if not ~ certainly not a problem. I greatly appreciate you taking time out to direct me to unlocking musical history. My best regards,
Shawn
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Post by lucius1958 on Mar 24, 2015 2:12:30 GMT -5
Alas, I do not have the resources to do extensive work on a motor these days.
You might, however, try the Talking Machine Forum (TMF), which is a far livelier place, and to which many of this board's members (and some great phonographic mavens) also belong. You are far more likely to find a solution there.
BillS
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Post by shockers1 on Mar 24, 2015 12:33:00 GMT -5
Excellent, I was unaware that this forum existed. I will register later tonight, as I'm sure this will be remedied eventually. But before moving on, I cannot thanks you enough for taking the time to guide me in the right direction. I will certainly update you on the outcome of this being my first phonograph undertaking. Till next time,
Shawn
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Post by lucius1958 on Mar 27, 2015 0:19:10 GMT -5
You're welcome: I wish you good fortune on this project!
BillS
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