Larry's DD thread On Vic Board

[neophone]

Larry,

We should move it on over here, that way we won't get rudely interupted

If those records had brown grooves they weren't N.O.S. If they were brown at the beginning, I'll bet someone started playing them on a standard talking machine with a steel needle.

Phil O. was spot on I'd say. He knows his stuff!

You mentioned the fact that the diamond is so much harder that the Condesite. It is a weird fact of life that shellac wears down steel needles and brass gears wear down steel ones. Strange but true. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

(and small dogs wear down my patience. )

Regards,
J.

[maroongem]

Larry, et al,

There are several circumstances that will cause the "brown grooves" in the condensite surface, the foremost will be a chipped diamond stylus. It's always a safe bet to test a newly obtained Reproducer/machine on the dead wax area(run off) before ruining your 52000 series record. I have tried steel needles on a DD (Hawaiian music, of course) just to see what would happen. Needless to say, the sound was barely audible, but the sound box wasn't heavy enough to cause the needle to cut into the surface. This was done on a Victor machine, so I can't vouch for other brands.
When I first obtained my Brunswick 117, I tried a DD on it and it promptly cut into the surface. I had to fiddle with the adjustment screw at the rear of the tone arm to correct the problem.
Also, if the limit pin is improperly adjusted and doesn't enough vertical movement, the stylus may cut into a high spot on the disc(this may have been caused by the clay core swelling over the years)

Bill

[larryh]

Can I assume your refering to my question about the diamond making a mark in the blank parts of the record?
I think I pretty well answered that by saying that it hadn't done it till I had played a number of records, then I noticed that it was indeed showing wear to those shiny blank parts. I checked again last night after I read the post about the possible dirt build up causing a problem, and indeed it was covered with dirt even though I had cleaned them. But in retesting on the rear section of several clean disc, I could see a faint line being made where the need rode. So I am probably out of luck. Such a shame I was really enjoying the good sound I was obtaining with this head.
I have a couple of options.. I just received my London head back which has a new needle just installed. If I were more mechanical I would consider removing it and putting it in the Edisonic head so I can go on enjoying the music. Or I can send the weight part and have a new needle bar put in it and go on with trying to solve the sound issue on the London reproducer.. I am mostly surprised at how easily the needle went from not damaging the record to its current state.

[maroongem]

Larry,

The "dirt" build up is more than likely condensite that you are digging up from the surface of the record.
When you look in the small well drilled in the weight under the head of the stylus bar, can you see a small spring attached to the back of the stylus and the other end hooked at the base of the well?
Also. does the stylus pivot freely on the mounting pin?
And lastly, do you have good side to side movement with the weight?
These are things that can cause gouging of the record if not properly adjusted.

Bill

[orthophonic]

Brown grooves are not a good thing. . . Best to see what caused them before you mess up a very valued recording and they are simply the results of something digging its way past the surface into the record's core material; again not the best of scenarios. . .

[maroongem]

Unfortunately, brown grooves indicate that you have passed through the condensite and are now seeing the wood-flour core.
If you're lucky, you'll get a "hiss" as it goes through that section, and worse case, it will repeat in that goove(s) until the feed screw & nut pull it through. Either way, the record is toast and will only get worse in that area, even with a good Reproducer.
I've been tempted to experiment with records like that with shellac, and see if it will pass through better.

Bill

[larryh]

Yes I looked over most of the records pretty closely but sometimes in poor light its hard to see those inprefections if they are short.. All of them took place before I got them.. the Edisonic reproducer is on its way to Steven Medved for a replacement of the needle and to see what he thinks of the sound. It was really quite thrilling after the professional rebuild I was hearing..
Now I have a new issue, I also replaced a new diaphragm in my nickle reproducer with an original one and it is much better also.. But it developed an odd almost chime like ringing as the needle runs the record surface over a slight hump perhaps and then over certain kinds of passages. Its almost like someone is striking a very faint wind chime in the music. Only thing differnt is that the new diaphragm had a all string connection and the old one a metal. Any one have a similar situation that they solved..