Edison #18 Cabinet

[jamtt]

Hello
I have a Edison #18 cabinet that my Grandmother gave me, it's in good shape but needs a little work and I want to make sure I restore it correctly. The wood looks to be oak and I was wondering if there was a special finishing agent I should use other than just say something like pledge.
Also, the major concern is that the sound horn has broken off at the end where it fits into the main stylus unit, not sure if it needs to be welded or glued ?
The machine works great just as I remembered as a child, and I have 20 blue Edison cylinders which I plan to catalog..
I addition I have a spring which I think attaches to the horn so that the horn pivots as it plays. It looks like the horn is supposed to be secured to the bottom inside the cabinet, currently it is not but I do see a hole there. And the mechanics need to be properly cleaned up and oiled but again with what kind of appropriate oils? Just looking for some advise so that I do things correctly, something for my grandson to have later on!
Thanks
T

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[lucius1958]

Pictures would be a great help.

What you have sounds like an Amberola 30, 50, or 75. (You can check the patent plate for the particular model).

FIRST OFF: I suggest you buy a copy of Eric Reiss' "The Compleat Talking Machine": this is a must-have for anyone with an old phonograph or gramophone.

For the cabinet: you can start off by cleaning the finish with original formula (non-pumice) GoJo hand cleaner (Goop is another good brand): paint it on with a brush, wait a few minutes, then rub it down with ultra fine steel wool (I prefer the plastic finishing pads myself). If the finish is intact, you can bring the gloss back up with "Feed - n - Wax".

If the finish is thin, you might want to rub on a few coats of thinned shellac (look up "French polish").

For the works: IMPORTANT WARNING- make sure the mainspring is COMPLETELY RUN DOWN before disassembling: if not, you will get a very unpleasant surprise.

Once you've got the motor disassembled, you can clean it with an old toothbrush and solvent: some use naphtha, while there are also some good degreasers for automotive use - I have used something called "Krud Kutter" with much success.

The mainspring(s) probably need to be cleaned and regreased as well: if you have heard any thumping while the machine is playing, that's a sure sign the grease is dried out. The original lubricant was a mixture of graphite and Vaseline, but modern auto greases, like lithium or molybdenum, work extremely well. (If the spring seems to be working smoothly, but you just want to make sure, you can always inject some more grease through the hole in the barrel that's covered by a broad headed bolt.) For lubricating the gears: you can use Vaseline on the bull gear (on the spring barrel), and possibly on the worm gear for the governor. For the other gears, I would recommend a light sewing machine oil (NOT 3-in-1 or WD-40). Don't over-lubricate, but make sure the gears and bearings are running smoothly.

The coil spring on Amberolas suspends the horn from the underside of the bedplate: there should be a little hook there. Ideally, the spring should be sheathed in rubber tubing, plus the hook on the horn: this improves the sound. At the bottom edge of the horn, there were two different arrangements for the pivot: here is where photos would be useful.

As for the damage to the horn: is it the horn itself, or the neck of the reproducer, that has broken off? Again, photos would help. I would suggest you send the reproducer to an experienced repairman (Steve Medved in Florida comes to mind, but there are others). It will certainly have to be thoroughly cleaned and lubricated, the gaskets replaced, and the diaphragm and stylus inspected (and replaced if necessary). If the damaged portion is not able to be repaired, you should be able to get replacement parts from a number of sources.

I hope this has been of some help to you in your quest to bring this songster back to life! :-)

BillS

[jamtt]

Hi and thanks for your fast response, the first thing I need to do is deal with the broken horn on the insertion point on the neck.
Just trying to figure out how to include additional pics in this response

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[jamtt]

Ok here are some more pics, I cleaned up the cabinet with Trade Secret Furniture Polish and Cleaner, it looks great...other than repairing the horn I was wondering if replacement stylus are still available or do they last forever under normal use..yes it is definitely a Amberola 30, the gears and such don't look too bad at all, pretty clean, I don't think the machine was used very often, just in the summers in the old farm house..
Thanks
T

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[lucius1958]

OK, it's a 30 (the first phonograph I ever had as well)...

You will definitely have to get the reproducer neck out of the horn first: these reproducers were generally made of pot metal, which has problems with swelling and cracking due to age. Drip some penetrating oil, such as "Liquid Wrench" or "Kroil", around the edges of the broken part; let that sit for a few hours, and try to ease the neck out with some appropriate tool. If it won't come free, you might try sticking the horn in a freezer overnight (if you have a large enough freezer): this may cause the pot metal to shrink enough for it to be removed. If not, you may have to break the neck out from the inside, using a fine keyhole saw to cut it into pieces.

You should also remove the reproducer from its carriage. Loosen the set screws; and if it won't budge, try the penetrating oil and the freezer trick, and gently tap around the bottom edge of the reproducer with a brass hinge pin and a small hammer (supporting the edges of the carriage on wooden blocks, with some padding underneath). This takes a great deal of patience; but slow, persistent, and gentle work will eventually free the reproducer.

Once the reproducer is free, you should send it to a reputable professional for restoration or replacement. Check the stylus under high magnification for any signs of wear, which will show up as a flat spot on the point, or a chip, which will be quite as obvious (a good stylus should present a smooth, rounded point at the tip). As before, I would recommend Steven Medved, who is a conscientious and meticulous craftsman; he also has access to the new Bruce diamond styli, if needed, and works at reasonable rates.

One question I have from your photos: do you have the gear cover for this phonograph? If not, you might contact someone like George Vollema, at Great Lakes Antique Phonograph, who has a good supply of original parts: tell him it's for a late Amberola 30.

BillS

[jamtt]

I will try some penetrating oil this morning, a quick question ( see photo) when you say get the reproducer neck out of the horn first, do you mean the insert inside the neck ? it looks like it is about an inch long, is it like a female insert that connects the horn to the reproducer....yes I have the Gear cover, just not in the pics. Please bear with me here as I know little about this and want to make sure I do everything correctly in my attempt to fix it up! Once I get the horn repaired then I will concentrate on the needle, it sounded pretty good before I took it apart to clean, but then I am far from an expert, the tip appears to be smooth and rounded, I am in Nova Scotia Canada so finding someone close may be difficult.
Thanks
Terry

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[jamtt]

I got the insert out of the horn, but am having difficultly removing the part that inserts into the reproducer.(see photo) Would this be tapered in or even threaded in? I have threaded the inside of it and tried to pound it out but it doesn't budge

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[lucius1958]

As far as I know, the throat was either cast integral with the reproducer body, or soldered in. (Note: my 30 is a relatively early model, with the reproducer throat [at least] made of brass. I am not entirely sure how the later reproducers were constructed).

As said before, your best bet is to send both the reproducer and the broken throat to a good restorer. Besides this forum, the Talking Machine Forum (TMF) has many knowledgable members who can direct you to the best repairmen available.

Good luck!

BillS

[jamtt]

Very good! Thanks very much for your help!
Terry

[lucius1958]

You're welcome! :-)

BillS

[nefaurora]

Yeah, You can get out the broken piece of the reproducer neck that is lodged in the neck of the horn with a Drenel tool and a knurl head bit and just go slow and cut away from the inside until it releases and falls out of the horn neck. You will have to get a replacement top piece of the reproducer of a complete or parts reproducer from ebay or a parts dealer. There are a few on ebay.. It should not be that hard. Good luck with the project! Tony K.