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Post by imtrying on Oct 30, 2006 9:24:57 GMT -5
Hello, thank you for taking the time to read about my newly acquired phonograph and cabinet. I mentioned in the 'Welcome' thread that i would be looking for an appropriate place to post questions about it, and i hope that i have chosen correctly. I have posted some links here to photos which are hosted at photobucket. I have seen that others have posted images directly to the board, but i am not sure what kind of bandwidth the board has to spare and refuse to discover i have zapped every available resource with my photos. I hope it will not be too much of an inconvenience for you to click the links to view the images. So, here is a picture of the beast in its entirety, with lid and doors closed. The shiny brass knobs on the doors were put on by my mother, who says she kept the originals and will bring them over when she finds them. i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0447.jpgand here is the clearest photo i could manage of the label. It says "Huntophone MFD by Chicago Phonograph MFG CO Chicago" Googling for either Huntophone or Chicago Phonograph MFG Co returned only 2 relevant hits, neither of which gave me much information. i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0441.jpgHere is a look at whats under the lid. It appears that the hardware which would have held the turntable in place is missing. There are four empty holes where i imagine the screws would have been. I did remove the turntable and have a look at the motor. The motor is marked "Heineman Motor of Quality". i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0445.jpgThis is a shot of whats behind the double doors: i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0448.jpgand here is the grill in all its tragedy: i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0453.jpgand another of the grill pieced together somewhat. However sad it may be that it has broken, the pieces do fit together very nicely. My amateur opinion is that a skillful repair would be quite successful, what do you think? i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0452.jpgThe wood made to use the cabinet appears to be oak. It has a rich golden tone and a striking pattern in places. I have heard this patterning referred to as 'tiger' but i am unsure if that is applicable to this piece. Also, the cups which sit inside of the cabinet near the turntable, and which i suppose were made to hold spare needles and what nots appear to be oxidized in places. It is quite unattractive, is there a safe way to clean them up a bit? If you are still with me, I thank you so much for your patience. It is probably clear by my writing that i have zero idea where to even start with this piece. I hope that you may be able to give me some idea of the desirability of such a phonograph in todays market, and perhaps a few suggestions on how best to proceed. Sincerely, Angela
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Post by Matt Brown on Oct 30, 2006 12:51:55 GMT -5
Hi Angela, Thanks for your post. The "Huntophone" is a new one to me - one of hundreds of "off-brand" machines manufactured in the early 20th century. Nice cabinet - generic parts. That grille is repairable - I've fixed MUCH worse. Here's a pic of a Starr grille that came to me in about 40 or 50 pieces, with missing veneer, etc - this pic was taken during one of the marathon glue-ing sessions I held: www.misterphonograph.com/images/Starr/Grille clamps.jpg[/img] After several simalar sessions, some staining, re-veneering, and touching up, it turned out like so: Let me know if I can be of assistance in repairing the grille. As far as the rest goes, a good cleaning would help - using 0000 steel wool, give it a LIGHT scrubbing with lemon oil (Old English) and wipe off the dirt - repeat several times. You'll be amazed at the difference. Reproducer could probably use a rebuild. Looks like a pot-metal repro though, so be very careful or have a professional do it for you. Again, contact me if I can be of assistance. If the motor runs ok, then I'd leave it alone. Putting a new piece of felt on the turntable will only increase it's value. Speaking of value...... I hate to be a downer, but these off-brand no-name machines with generic parts just aren't worth a whole lot. My guesstimate would be in the $200 to $350 range once it's all cleaned up, etc. As for cleaning the needle cups, try steel wool. If that doesn't do the trick, I use a wire brush (a tiny one!) on a Dremel. Follow up with some polish and that should do the trick. Hope this helps - Matt
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Post by neophone on Oct 31, 2006 2:08:38 GMT -5
imtrying, I think Matt basically covered it all. Could the Heineman be Otto Heineman of OkeH Records and The Genr'l Phonograph Corp.? Did they manufacture motors etc? From "The Origins Of OkeH" by Allan Sutton, www.mainspringpress.com/okeh.html I guess that answers my question. As far as the wood goes, some people do call it "tiger" it is I believe quartersawn oak. For the bright-work you might try "Nevr-Dull" wadding polish first, however if it is really oxidized bad the steel wool is the way to go. It looks like it was stripped at some point is there a finish on it now? How freely does the tonearm move? It is a very handsome machine, I wish you luck getting it back to top-notch condition. I don't as yet own any off-brand machines yet I have seen may very attractive examples on-line. Regards, J.
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Post by maroongem on Oct 31, 2006 12:27:01 GMT -5
Some of those "Off-brands" had beautiful cabinet work. However the downside of these machines is if a part(a lot had pot metal tone arms) breaks, finding a replacement is near impossible.
Bill
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Post by imtrying on Nov 1, 2006 23:05:39 GMT -5
Thank you so much to those taking the time to reply. I appreciate the warm and encouraging tone displayed by the established members of this group. I believe you have given me exactly what I asked for and enough to keep me busy for at least a little while.
In regard to the question about the finish on the cabinet, I am surprised to hear that it is not original. Although I am in no way qualified to make such judgments, I had assumed the existing finish to be original to the piece. It does display a small number of blemishes, perhaps half a dozen quarter-dollar sized areas on the top of the lid, that indicate water damage.
I will follow the instructions given for a general, overall cleaning of the cabinet, and set to work on the oxidized areas keeping a conservative approach forefront in mind. The repair of the grill i will leave until these tasks are complete. If it is okay, my plan is to return here for more consultation when i am ready to begin that phase of the project.
Getting ahead of myself here, it was suggested that the motor be left alone if it were in working condition. It is not in working condition, or if it is, i have been unsuccessful in getting it to work... operator error, perhaps? ha. I do note that the hole which allows the winding arm to attach to the motor is rough cut and shows evidence of missing hardware. Above and to the rear of that larger hole, is a smaller one, which my reading here at the board leads me to believe would have been occupied by a tone adjusting thingamajig. My expert use the the terminology should be enough to invite correction..... (^.^) The smaller hole does not have any corresponding hardware from the motor, and I assume this attachment is missing.
But, like I said, I should be happily busied by the work set in front of me at this point. I will keep those who are interested appraised of my progress.
Thank you, again, for your polite attention despite your busy schedules. Sincerely, Angela
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Post by neophone on Nov 2, 2006 2:56:23 GMT -5
Angela, I am guessing that the finish is not original because the interior seems much darker in the photos than the exterior (The horn area, turntable area, & record storage compartment all seem darker.) You will need a crank escutcheon for the crank/winding key. When you wind up the motor what happens? If the turntable turns at all it may be something as simple as lubricating the motor. Give us details! The smaller hole may well be for some sort of volume control as you deduce. If you can photograph the side as well as the motor and post it so we can see what you've got there. Don't worry too much about getting all the terminology down right off, it will come in time, you won't find any snobs here. ;D As a start here's a little diagram photo I made a while back. It's my VV-X but it's similar. Does anyone have an image of an oiling/greasing chart for a Victor? That would be a help I'd think. (If not I'll see what I can come up with.) I'm looking forward to hearing of your progress Angela. Regards, John
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Post by neophone on Nov 2, 2006 6:57:11 GMT -5
Angela, I got bored ;D so I thought I'd find a couple of diagrams that might help a bit. These are for Victrolas but unless your Huntophone has a Plate & Pillar motor it should be similar. And here's a good cut away of a Victrola. It includes a look at much more than my photo diagram. Hope this helps! Regards, J. P.S. Try www.imageshack.us/ for posting photos. I've had great luck with it. you dont' even need to use the button thingy. Just copy and paste the embeddable code URL line and there you are!
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Post by imtrying on Nov 9, 2006 21:15:26 GMT -5
neophone! I'm not worthy..... i shall strive to be. Thank you for your fantastically detailed details with illustrations, instructions and numbered labels. i love it. so, i had been sulking about a recent discovery which i still am not convinced is not life threatening. that is, that the bracket (please continue to bear with my horrible grasp of the terminology here.... although neophone has left me NO excuse. thx neophone. ha.) the bracket which is seated in the wood part of the cabinet, and which the tone arm seats down onto.... i discovered that bracket to be broken. badly broken. as in cracked in two pieces and held together only by the condition of it being seated inside of the cabinet and not allowed to fall away. ok...... so that seems bad. and i had really quite resigned myself to the badness of it, recalling the words of a PP who had warned that finding parts for this machine may prove to be quite difficult if not impossible. and then by some miraculous cosmic force (e-bay) the (i think) exact piece , in an unbroken state , and offered at what seems to be a reasonable price (here i go thinking again... sheesh) suddenly became available to me. if i can in any way touch you with just a bit of my foolish enthusiasm, then you will perhaps be persuaded to take a look at this ebay auction (ending within 2days) cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170046225994&indexURL=3#ebayphotohostingebay Item number: 170046225994 thanks guys! -Angela
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Post by maroongem on Nov 10, 2006 13:25:51 GMT -5
Angela,
Upon viewing the link that you supplied, my advice is to steer clear of it. If you look at the lower left picture that shows the bottom of the tone arm, you will observe the area where the pin that the arm rotates on the base plate is broken. This is not uncommon with these arms as they were made of pot metal and over the years swell and become brittle. Chances are that the U joint that the reproducer is on is more than likely swollen and probably not have enough freedom of movement. There are probably other issues not visible in the pix, so again, I would advise to pass on it.
Bill
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Post by gramophoneshane on Nov 10, 2006 13:47:41 GMT -5
Hi Angela, Personally,I would grab it.Unfortunately,the tone arm was made from pot metal.It was great in its day, but over time, it tends to swell and becomes very brittle.Once its broken,you cant weld or solder it like most other metals.You may be able to rebuild the missing piece in the tone arm with epoxy resin or fibre glass though, if you really have to. It really depends on how far the pin on the base goes into the broken sleeve.You may be able to use part of the old tone arm to aid in its repair as well. Normally,I wouldnt buy something like this because of the damage,but it does seem fairly minor,and at least its complete and will make your phonograph useable again.You can always replace it again at a later date if a perfect example comes along. Because its pot metal, you may find it hard to get another one that is any better.You may never find another one at all. Then your only alternitive will be to replace the tone arm with some other type,which would be a shame.If its better than what you've got,and you can afford it, Id get it.
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Post by imtrying on Nov 10, 2006 14:13:14 GMT -5
Bill, Thank you for sharing with me your time and for your keen observation about the condition of the tone arm. Fortunately, the tone arm that is with my machine has no damage that i am able to discern. My thinking is that the existing tone arm is not going to need to be replaced. The part that is broken, I am going to take a picture right now and spare us all the headache of having to figure out what the el i am talking about when i say 'its the deal for the thing'....... haahaa here we go: oh, this is too funny..... the only part i really wanted to get into good focus is the only part of my picture that is not in focus. whaddyaknow? I was hoping to show the actual cracked area. It is a complete break and not simply a crack, i shouldn't call it a crack its broken in two. It does not fall away from itself because it is still being held by the intact arm on the other side of the post. But, it wiggles easily..... kind of like a very loose tooth. It is this part that i was thinking to grab from that auction. Can you tell if it is even the right part? Or am i dreaming? Is this even repairable, or something that could be replaced? -Angela
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Post by imtrying on Nov 10, 2006 15:29:03 GMT -5
oooookay...... you know what? call me chicken little, call me an alarmist, an optimist, a course sieve, unpracticed in the art of fine observation..... why, yes, I can go on like this all day...... there are, upon a more careful examination of the parts being offered through ebay, quite a few areas of difference in comparison to my own. once i had the picture posted of the broken part of my machine, i noticed two very marked differences in the piece i had proposed to replace it with. Firstly, the lack of a set stop tab (there i go again) on the arm of the bar holding the pin in the center. The surface of the arms on my piece are smooth and level all around. Not so with the one up for bid today. The tone arm up for bid today has a butt end (the part that fits into the machine) that is smooth and level all the way around. and not so with the tone arm fitting my piece. You can see that there are two large notched areas around the base of the tone arm fitting my machine in the picture below. the price is up over twenty bucks now........ and I'm a cheapie. gramosphoneshane, i wonder if you might venture out to follow some of these links I've provided (i still don't want to hog bandwidth, YKWIM?). You indicated that the parts offered on ebay may be compatible with my machine, but....... when i look at em side to side (switching windows, here) I'm not certain anymore... i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0466.jpgi20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0468.jpgi20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0469.jpgi20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0471.jpgi20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/anj119/100_0465.jpg
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Post by neophone on Nov 10, 2006 16:01:36 GMT -5
Angela,
There are differences, if you got that one you may have to try to fit the entire assembly to your machine. Might work, might not. There is another possiblity. JB Weld. If the base is simply broken in two, you may be able to glue it back together with JB Weld ;D
Regards, J.
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Post by gramophoneshane on Nov 11, 2006 1:54:24 GMT -5
Hi Angela, yes there does seem to be some slight differences. I think you could probably fix the one you have. Ive put up a thread on another board about a replacement,and a fellow by the name of Mark may have one though.Ive told him about this thread,so hopefully he might join us soon,and you can both work something out together. Shane.
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Post by maroongem on Nov 11, 2006 11:01:24 GMT -5
Angela,
To help bolster Neophone's statement about retrofitting, one of the most important things to consider is tracking swing. A properly fitted tone arm should swing in an arc so at the end of it, the needle should be centered on the middle of the record spindle. This is paramount for good listening, not to mention record wear. Now that you have supplied more detailed pix of your arm, there are quite a few noticeable differences. I would go with the JB Weld repair. Take a piece of masking tape and affix it to the outside where the crack is, to stabilize it. Mix up the JB Weld as explained on the packing card and slather it generously on the inside where the crack is, making sure you overlap both sides of the crack. Let it set for 24 hrs and you should have a very solid repair that won't be visible on the outside. If mixed correctly, this epoxy is very strong and I have had good luck with it over the yrs!
Bill ;D
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