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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Apr 5, 2009 19:03:36 GMT -5
Bill,
It is quite sticky on the steel wool when I remove what I think is shellac with denatured alcohol. The way the finish is alligatored, I think this is shellac.
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Post by klinkmi on Apr 5, 2009 19:09:39 GMT -5
Alcohol will soften early lacquer finishes but it will not dissolve like shellac .
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Post by klinkmi on Apr 5, 2009 19:17:05 GMT -5
Most finishes Post WW1 was an early form of Lacquer. However to get a "Piano Finish" prior to this the wood was first stained with an Aniline Dye , Filled , Sealed with Shellac and finished with Shading Spirit Varnish(Finish tinted with Dye or Pigments). This over time has the tendency to Alligator over time.
Mike
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Post by larryh on Apr 5, 2009 19:26:37 GMT -5
Your machine sounds about like the way mine came. Every thing was coming apart.. I didn't have the slats any longer in mine, someone removed them. Mine had "no" mute and I don't see any evidence that yours did as well? I don't think it came with one most of the time. Mine is not shellac, it is lacquer which the latter machines used.. I glued the veneer down which turned out fair at best. I touched up the light spots with old english dark scratch cover. Then I used brushing lacquer in a semi gloss for the finish. I was surprised at how well it goes on if you are at all careful. Much easier than shellac and dried very smooth. Seeing all the checking on yours though it may well be shellac. Have you tested yet on the back to see if denatured alcohol removed or softens it? If not it most likely is lacquer.
The Edison Diamond Disc Motor Repair Manual that is available on some sites will explain how to remove the motor from the cabinet. Its a bit tricky till you get it, then its easy.
Larry
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Post by larryh on Apr 5, 2009 19:33:11 GMT -5
I missed the replies on this page, yes you have shellac then. It looked like it to me from the way the finish was cratered. If your really brave you can take a large brush and dip it in denatured alcohol and brush first across the grain then wet it more and go with the grain and leave it dry. It will remove many of the bad places and break down much of that cracked effect. There sites under "repairing shellac finishes" on google that will give advice on how to do it successfully. When that was good and dry, like a day or more later, I sanded it with light sandpaper to remove as much of the ridges as possible. Lastly I coated it with shellac that was four parts denatured alcohol to one part shellac. You must have it level on each side your working and brush it in long continuos strokes carefully overlapping a bit. Don't start against a edge or molding or it will pool an cause runs or rings in finish. You have to start away from the lid when going down a side the quickly go back and with the brush lighted from so much shellac make the run down the whole length. It takes some doing to get it to come out right. Do a lot of reading first if your not familiar with it and test on the rear of the machine.
Larry
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diggr
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by diggr on Apr 5, 2009 20:30:51 GMT -5
For what it is worth, this degree of refinishing is all new to me, so I apologize in advance for seemingly mundane questions. Frank, There are no mundane or foolish questions. That is one of the reasons of these boards. We come here to help each other with our experiences and of course, tribulations. There are many ways to solve a problem and every one may have a different way of solving it. You will have to find what is best for you. I would second that Bill. A very wise man once defined a stupid (mundane) question for me. A stupid question is a question you ask when you already know the answer. So it would follow that if you don't know the answer to the question, then the question isn't stupid. Forgive me Frank, you may have already seen that rant over on Gen-Edge. And I ran across an Edison Disc Motor Manual in poking around. While it doesn't apply directly to my current project, it helps to fill out my understanding of how these machines were put together. And it looks like it may apply to your machine. Here is the link. forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=476I downloaded the pdf and it makes for interesting reading. Good luck |
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Apr 5, 2009 20:31:27 GMT -5
Many thanks, Larry. I'm not that brave, so my plan is to remove the shellac, try to reglue the veneer, wood putty in two spots on the veneer, then reshellac or lacquer coat the surfaces of the cabinet. My idea is to be minimal and let the phonograph show it's age, but also look nice in the end.
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Post by larryh on Apr 5, 2009 22:41:39 GMT -5
you won't be out anything to try it and you may be surprised at how much improvement it might make. It can save a lot of time if it works out plus the original color.
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Apr 6, 2009 8:17:20 GMT -5
Does anyone know where I can get a replacement tone arm control knob...the wooden handle? I have the screw for it, but the wooden portion is gone.
I don't think this model ever came with the volume control. I can see the holes for mounting it underneath the bedplate, but there is no wear on any of the components that would have exhibited transfer wear.
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Post by maroongem on Apr 6, 2009 15:39:43 GMT -5
I did notice yours was missing, but it shouldn't be hard to find one. Yours would be the later black one and I'm sure that one of the suppliers that have been mentioned here in other posts can help you.
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Apr 6, 2009 15:48:51 GMT -5
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Apr 7, 2009 16:25:26 GMT -5
I removed the motor and horn today. No rust that I can see on the horn...it's just dirty. The spring motor is COVERED in thick globs of grease and is just nasty....however, at the bottom of the case, when I got the horn out, I found the tone arm control knob in a glob of grease. I wiped it off and it is good as new! Now I just need to send the reproducer off to be cleaned up and get to work on this cabinet.
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