borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Jun 24, 2018 22:22:41 GMT -5
The electric recorder is something I made and designed. Fairchild lathe heads can be found on ebay at times. In the early 2,000nds interest in vinyl records declined and record cutting equipment was cheap. With the increased interest in record players and turn tables the value of record making equipment is increasing.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on May 11, 2017 6:31:31 GMT -5
My friend and Mentor, Paul Morris had a fire that destroyed his molds, and wax making equipment. For those who don't know, Paul has supplied metallic soap phonograph blanks, and recordings in standard and concert size to museums, and the collector community for 40 years. To help him recover; the phonograph community has created a gofundmepage to help him back on his feet. Whilst I also make wax phonograph blanks, It is only a hobby and something I do in my spare time. For Paul Morris, it is part of his livelihood, and has a very reasonably priced product, and his service has always met normal needs dependably. www.gofundme.com/7nn7gq-paul-morris-music-shop-fire-tmf
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Dec 26, 2016 9:23:57 GMT -5
At this time APSCO is really it for tubes for phonograph cylinders, purchased in small quanitties. Below is companies that can make custom tubes. Yes 500-1000 is a minimum order. You may think that is enough, no worry you will use them. I have had several orders of cylinder boxes made for the blanks and records I make. If you make up nice Amberol or Blue Amberol,Wax Amberol, or Gold Moulded style boxes you will I am certain be able to sell them if you have the graphics nice (best to have a real printer do it, such as Hatch Show Print, rather than a computer generated fabrication. The box below is a 3 piece box I had made by Acme Spiral. The box is similar to An Edison wax Amberol with the large main inner tube, shorter outer tube, slip over ring on top, what is different is it has crimped paper caps crowning the top of both ends of the box, they are study, and since shipping cylinders in them, no breakage (they also get cotton liners like a Gold moulded box.) www.papertube.co/acepapertube.com/www.chicagopapertube.com/www.acmespiral.com/I don't know how much more help you could get. Attachments:
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Jul 26, 2016 15:47:45 GMT -5
The label you show dates from 1899-1900 and to my knowledge is the first actual label on Edison records, the earliest one does not have Edison's picture and about 1900 they added his photo, and the box used until 1901 when a gray blue box was used. I believe that prior to 1899 there was no label on the box, it was just a brown pasteboard box, the announcement and record ticket made it an Edison record. The earlier National Phonograph Co. tickets are usually a green paper with old English style on top, and then block type for the title and artist, record no.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on May 23, 2016 6:36:34 GMT -5
"Wax" cylinders are actually metallic soap, and made from aluminum dissolved in water and sodium hydroxide, filtered and added to stearic acid, it is added portionwise for two hours, and the formula starting off in the 300 degree range finishing at 518F then the temperature brought down to 450F and Ceresin wax added, that is how it is made, it is cooled and heated once, and then the third time, used to mold the blanks. I have made thousands of these. On one hand we want to preserve original cylinders as much as possible, especially original brown wax. So that is why I intended to make new brown wax records. While I make and sell brown wax records and blanks, it is a hobby, and I don't accept orders. While there is a demand for them, I make between 200 and I have made as many as 1600 in a year, it is not a business that you can rely on for a weekly income, and it is time consuming. (I guess if you are retired and receive a large pension, this is a good business for you, as it takes an incredible amount of time, and you will never be paid for your time!!) Why I don't take orders, but sell what I feel like making. Collectors and modern numbskulls abuse my service. Pressure to make them faster results in poor blanks and records. No you are not doing this to me so Hobby it is! Weigh and measure time one hour, make hydrated alumina 30 minutes, filter hydrated alumina 20 minutes over a two day span filtering 7 times with two or 3 coffee filters each time for purity. Making wax takes two and a half hours a batch. Heat and reheat wax 20 minutes each after cooling for 6 hours. Molding a blank takes one hour to pre heat mold and 80-90 minutes to set in the mold. It takes 15 minutes to measure and trim the ends of the blank, 30 minutes to shave from 2.36" (blanks must be thick to have quality, and not warp.) down to 2.215 a diameter they then season for 30 days. It takes 20 minutes to prepare each cylinder box. To record a record might takes 20 takes, and several blanks until it is right. I then will make a run of a song and each is 2min 15 seconds long. I am one of the only recordist to use a real Edison studio recorder, not a home one. I am equipped with 200 glass recording diaphragms and own the rights with Chuck Richards and Rich Goodin to Edison's cupped point cutters. Not many collectors have shown interest in coming and experiencing this equipment, I have invited for 15 years, maybe 4 people have been interested.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Mar 1, 2016 19:59:27 GMT -5
I could make you a copy I have the original cylinder with the exception, before the announcement the original owner of the cylinder, said, "this Record was made by Jay West" before the record announcement begins. I do not accept payment for a suggested cylinder until it is finished. The cylinders are a hobby, as I work 48 hours a week, It sometimes may be 6 months to a year to finish some suggested projects,as It is a hobby.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Nov 6, 2015 23:52:46 GMT -5
Yes I saw the video, and of course an Ediphone blank was tested for lead. Many get Ediphone and Dicataphone mixed up. Ediphone blanks made by Thomas A Edison Inc. West Orange N.J. are perfectly safe, I have the full factory production notes to make them and they are made of a very safe formula, aluminum sodium stearate, paraffin, sterine pitch, #503 filter aid, and nigrosene base B dye to make them black. I never stated that Ediphone blanks were toxic, I stated that Dictaphone Corp and other brands of NON Edison dictation blanks could be toxic. The patent in question is from 1955 from Dictaphone at Bridgeport Con.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 16, 2015 23:44:47 GMT -5
I always notice Chuck that if you or I comment on a post, in any phonograph related board it usually stops the thread some.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 13, 2015 15:37:18 GMT -5
Phonoboy that is correct. Also when adjusting recording machines, a lot of drag on them, especially studio recorders that are much heavier than home recorders.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 13, 2015 15:20:09 GMT -5
I have the Cal Stewart recording of "I laughed at The Wrong Time" on Blue Amberol it is a hoot, and clear and loud.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 12, 2015 6:13:59 GMT -5
It would work, but yes, sharpen often. It would be much better to have sapphire, if available. For instance I shave at least 10 to 15 cylinders a week, (now that it is a hobby), and the sapphires still last many years, even with as much abuse as I give it. Each new blank goes from 2.3" down to 2.190" I made my blanks this way to ensure less surface defects and also to combat warping.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 9, 2015 15:58:33 GMT -5
The Triumph does a decent job shaving, the home, so so, never shaved on a Standard. One thing to remember is any shaving on a phonograph you put the carriage down in the play position, and then look for the highest point on the blank, if any, and then bring your shaving knife down with the veneer, so it is close but not touching the cylinder yet, and then start the machine and give a quarter turn, and if it is not shaving yet, bring it back to the start and give an 1/8th turn and so on, Your first pass you want to not even take any wax off , maybe a spot or two and then give an 8th turn and start again, extremely small adjustments, and do not change the cut once it has started, if you do it is too late! I have shaved over 10,000 cylinder records (new, freshly manufactured, from 2.3" down to about 2.190=2.150", not original brown wax, as that is a travesty to shave any pre-1900 wax, in any condition.)
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 9, 2015 15:49:15 GMT -5
They look like a small chisel, but instead of being metal they are sapphire.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 9, 2015 15:25:23 GMT -5
It certainly is not something to mess around with. Unless you make it outside and shave it outside and wear a canister type respirator at all times. It is actually 3.3% lead oxide in the wax, and that is not a small amount.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 9, 2015 6:30:52 GMT -5
For those who don't want to read a whole lot. I found out that my long time hunch about Dictaphone brand recording blanks (those are the 6" long blanks for Dictaphone machines, some people cut them down and shave them thin to make 2 minute recordings on.) I find that Dictaphone brand wax or Nuphonic brand, in the past made very nice recordings when freshly shaved, nice and clear, however after a few weeks, the surface gets noise on it, and fogs a little. I suspected that not only do they have a higher olaic and glycerin content than entertainment cylinders, that something else was amiss. I was right, Dictaphone brand blanks and maybe some off brands like Standard, are a lead based metallic soap. to get you up to speed, Edison brown wax, and Columbia brown wax, moulded waxes of Edison and Columbia are Aluminum based. That is Aluminum is dissolved in water and sodium hydroxide. In lead soaps there really is no reaction with the lead and the lye, the lead (red or white lead oxide) is added to the mass to make it slippery and hard, it makes a great recording surface but not long lasting. Most phonograph enthusiasts do not like me, or think my research is true, because I do not have a degree, so nothing I say is valid. They do not believe I have made over 2000 lbs of brown wax blanks, and will dismiss this fact. Anyway here is the long version of the Dictaphone formula, and it is from 1955, pretty late in the game for cylinders. They are eluding that the formula is just a formula, however from experiments I did early on, I can tell you Dictaphone brand wax behaves as lead soaps behave, having made some myself. It is nice that Ediphone blanks or entertainment, and brown wax cylinders are Aluminum based, that is aluminum reacting with NaOH and water. Most likely nobody will answer this post as it is uncomfortable to talk about. Fact needs to be shared. I know many collectors who love to shave and test on this brand of wax. The shavings like to fly up your nose, and if you shave enough there might be a possibility of lead poising. (We don't care Shawn you are just a misguided hobbyist!!!!)
Since I have no intention of ever making Dictaphone or Nuphonic wax I am sharing the formula and information about it. The Collector and Archivist community as a whole has stated I I was lying when I said that Dictaphone blanks contained lead, well, you see I have made hundreds of pounds of wax, and I just knew something was different when I meleted some to experiment with onetime (NEVER AGAIN!!). They do indeed contain RED LEAD!!!
United States Patent Ofiicc 2,710,402 Patented June 7, 1955 ANTI-STATIC SOUND-RECORDING MEDIUM AND METHOD OF MAKING THE SAME Richard G. Rowe, Redding Ridge, Conn., assignor to Dictaphone Corporation, Bridgeport, Conn., a corporation of New York No Drawing. Original application May 11, 1950, Serial No. 161,473. Divided and this application August 11, 1952, Serial No. 303,833
4 Claims. (Cl. 106-37) This invention relates to a novel anti-static agent adapted to be incorporated in a sound-recording medium to reduce the tendency of'static electrical charges to accumulate on the surfaces of such a medium, and more particularly to sound-recording media incorporating such an anti-static agent and a method of makingsuch media. The anti-static agent of the present invention is particularly useful for reducing the accumulation of static charges on the well-known wax recording cylinders, and will be illustratively described. in that environment. The phrase sound-recording wax will be used hereafter to designate the material of which such cylinders are made, although as is well known sound-recording waxes are ordinarily largely composed of metallic soaps, higher fatty acids, or both, and may contain no wax at all in a strict chemical sense. i i
The present application is a division of my pending application Serial No. l 6l,473 filed May 11, 1950, now abandoned. The claims of the present case are directed to sound recording media incorporating anti-static agents such as those claimed in'my co-pending case, and to 1 methods of making such media.
For many years sound-recording wax cylinders have been used for a variety of sound-recording purposes. As ordinarily used, such cylinders are mounted on a horizontal rotating mandrel of a dictating machine, and a laterally movable sound-responsive stylus cooperates with the rotating cylinder to cut a helical sound track in the surface thereof. As an incident of this cutting action short, curly fibers of the wax material are removed from the surface of the cylinder, which fibers are sometimes 1 referred to as chips, and a container or chip collector is usually provided beneath the cylinder to collect those chips that fall oh. the cylinder. It is, of course, desirable that all of the chips fall off the cylinder as soon as they have been formed so that they may be collected and disposed of in an orderly manner, but unfortunately there is a tendency under normal circumstances for the majority of the chips formed to continue to adhere to the cylinder surface. Although the reasons for the adherence of the chips to the surface of the cylinder are not completely understood, my investigations indicate that the principal reason for this undesired adherence of the chips is the accumulation of a static electrical charge on the surface of the cylinder.
The removal of the chips from the surface of the cylinder is desirable for a variety of reasons. The cylinders are usually kept in cylindrical containers having an interior lining made of a fibrous fabric, and if the chips are not completely removed from the cylinder surface, they may be transferred to the interior of the container. Continued use of a container that has been contaminated with chips may cause the sound record to be scratched or otherwise deformed as the cylinder is inserted into or withdrawn from the container. If the chips are not removed by contact with the interior of the container, they may interfere with transcription of the sound record. Moreover, the adhering chips are generally untidy since, if they do not fall into the chip collector of the dictating machine for disposal in a controlled manner, they have a tendency to fly off in the atmosphere and adhere to clothing, carpets and the like.
It is accordingly an object of the present invention to provide a wax sound-recording medium in cylindrical or other form that is of such a character that chips cut from the surface thereof by a sound-responsive stylus do not tend to adhere to the surface of the medium. It is another object of the invention to provide a novel antistatic agent adapted to be incorporated in a sound-recording wax to reduce the tendency of static electrical charges to accumulate on the surface of the sound record. It is a further object of the invention to provide a soundrecording wax incorporating such an anti-static agent. It is still another object of the invention to provide a method of making such an anti-static agent and a method of incorporating it effectively into a sound-recording medium. Other objects of the invention will be in part obvious and in part pointed out hereafter.
The objects of the present invention may be achieved in general by providing a sound-recording wax contain ing a relatively small quantity of tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate. I have found that the tendency of static electrical charges to collect on the surface of a sound-recording wax containing a small proportion of tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate is materially reduced, and that when this compound is incorporated in the wax nearly all of the chips formed by the action of a sound-responsive stylus thereon fall off as soon as they are formed. The quantity of the tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate incorporated in the soundrecording wax may vary from 2% to by weight, although in most cases preferred results are obtained by using about 4% by weight of the phosphate.
The present anti-static agent is preferably added to the wax while the wax is in molten condition and prior to the time that it is cast into a cylinder. So far as I am aware, tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate is a new compound.
In order to point out more fully the nature of the present invention, the following illustrative procedure is given for making tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate and also for incorporating it in a sound-recording wax to produce a sound-recording medium having anti-static properties: A stainless steel vessel equipped with a motor driven agitator and cooling coils is charged with 219 lbs. of n-butylamine dissolved in gallons of methanol. To this solution 116.7 lbs. of orthophosphoric acid is added slowly with stirring. During addition of the phosphoric acid a suitable refrigerant is passed through the coils of the reaction vessel to maintain the reaction temperature at about 10 C. The reaction proceeds readily and practically instantaneously and the tri-(n-butyl amine) phosphate is formed as a white precipitate. When addition of the phosphoric acid is complete, the refrigerant is cut off to permit the reaction mixture to warm up to room temperature and stirring continued for about an hour to ensure completeness of reaction.
The tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate thus formed is separated by filtration from other components of the mixture and purified by repeated washings with acetone, after which it is filtered and air dried. The purified powdered product fuses at about 165 C. It is soluble to the extent of about 25 parts per 100 in water at room temperature and to the extent of about 10 parts per 100 in ethanol at C. Its specific conductivity although not comparable with that of a metal, is substantially higher than the conductivity of other chemically related materials.
The tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate as thus formed may be incorporated in a conventional sound-recording wax,
for example, the wax formula disclosed at page 35 of The Reproduction of Sound by Henry Seymour (1918) in the following manner: A suitably heated vessel is charged with 3,333 lbs. of S. Stearine (commercial stearic acid) and the S. Stearine is melted. To the molten S. Stearine a solution of 208 lbs. of 98% caustic soda in 525 lbs. of water is slowly added. As the caustic soda solution is added, neutralization of the S. Stearine occurs and the mixture is heated to such an extent as to remove all water from the resulting soap mixture.
After completion of this neutralization step, 178 lbs. of red lead is added to the mixture in the reaction vessel. The addition of the red lead may be effected by removing a small quantity of the molten soap mixture from the heated vessel and mixing the red lead in powder form therewith, after which the mixture of red lead and soap is added to and mixed with the main body of material in the vessel.
When the red lead has been incorporated into the molten soap, 212.5 lbs. of trHn-butylamine) phosphate, 950 lbs. of parafiin wax, and 119.5 lbs. of myrtle wax are successively added to the mixture in the kettle, and heating of the mixture continued at about 375 F. for a period of about 24 hours.
At the end of the heating period the molten mixture is cast into cylinders in the usual manner, and the cylinders machined to form the desired sound-recording surface.
Cylinders made in accordance with the foregoing procedure are strikingly superior to conventional cylinders in respect to the extent to which chips fall off the surfaces thereof when they are cut by a sound-responsive stylus. Moreover, tests have shown that the electrical conductivity of the wax is appreciably increased by incorporation of the present anti-static agent therein.
It is, of course, to be understood that the foregoing detailed procedure is illustrative only and that numerous changes may be made therein without departing from the scope of the invention. Many different wax formulae have been previously proposed for sound-recording purposes and my experiments indicate that the present antistatic agent can be used in any of these known formulae to improve the anti-static properties of the resulting soundrecording wax. Since many embodiments might be made of the persent invention and since many changes might be made in the embodiment disclosed herein, it is to be understood that the foregoing description is to be interpreted as illustrative only and not in a limiting sense.
What I claim is: 1. A sound-recording medium having anti-static prop- 1 erties, said medium comprising a sound-recording wax containing from 2% to 10% by weight of tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate.
2. A sound-recording medium having anti-static prop erties, said medium comprising a sound-recording wax containing about 4% by weight of tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate.
3. The method of making a sound-recording medium having anti-static properties which comprises preparing a melt of a sound-recording wax, mixing with said molten wax between 2% and 10% by weight of tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate and cooling and casting the resulting mixture to form a solid sound-recording medium.
4. The method of making a sound-recording medium having anti-static properties which comprises heating a mixture of fatty acid, caustic alkali, and parafiin wax to form a moltenmass, adding to said molten mass from about 2% to 10% by weight of tri-(n-butylamine) phosphate and cooling and casting the resulting mixture to form a solid sound-recording medium.
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