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Post by mallory757 on Sept 18, 2013 12:02:06 GMT -5
hi there, i am new at this edison phonograph/cylinder stuff. i have been on a month long quest to find data/resources to sell and or appraise my phonograph, and i have about 200 cylinder, most are edison blue amberol record, and some are just edison amberol record. what is the difference?
i am still working on compiling a list of all of the songs/artists, most of these have the case and lid and are in good-great condition (a few in fair to poor) most are in good condition tho. i have a few that are in 'box sets' like CDS sometimes come now a days. i am located in phoenix, az. and at this time, the only people i have been able to discuss these with have been in the UK.
ANY resources are greatly appreciated, and thank you in advance!
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Post by phonogfp on Sept 18, 2013 12:50:04 GMT -5
Hello Mallory,
If you post a photo of your phonograph either on this forum under "The Swap Shop" or on the Talking Machine Forum's "Yankee Trader" (http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewforum.php?f=9), you're sure to get some input (loading photos on the TMF is very easy and requires no external host). There are many models of Edison cylinder phonographs, and a picture speaks a thousand words.
As for the records you mentioned, both Edison Amberol and Blue Amberol cylinders are 4 minute records. Until 1912, Edison also manufactured and sold 2 minute records. The phonographs must have the proper gearing and reproducers to play each type of cylinder, and playing some cylinders with the wrong reproducer will guarantee immediate damage to the record.
Edison Amberol cylinders were introduced in 1908, are black in color with flat ends upon which the titles are stamped, and are made of a fragile black wax that is brittle and easily damaged. These records were originally sold in green and white boxes. These black Amberol records must be played with a sapphire stylus only (photos of your machine will help identify what type of reproducer it is equipped with).
Edison Blue Amberol records were introduced in 1912 to replace the fragile black wax Amberol records. The Blue Amberols are made of celluloid with a plaster of Paris core, and are quite strong and resistant to breakage. The first Blue Amberols were packaged in dark blue boxes, and have flat rims upon which the titles are stamped. After about 3 years, the title rim was beveled and remained so until production of these records ceased in 1929. In 1917 the box design changed to orange and blue. Blue Amberol records can be played with either a sapphire stylus or a diamond stylus, although the diamond is optimal.
Hope this helps a bit.
George P.
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Post by mallory757 on Sept 18, 2013 13:19:06 GMT -5
this is a great bit of information! i do thank you so much george, i will upload photos here tomorrow!
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Post by mallory757 on Sept 19, 2013 11:19:44 GMT -5
i didnt take pictures of all of the cylinders, simply because there are so many! i have attached some photos of the phonograph, and the large horn that i have. it appears to be a semi-leather material, im not sure tho. i also have a metal one.
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Post by phonogfp on Sept 19, 2013 12:54:48 GMT -5
Hi Mallory,
Your machine is an Edison Triumph (obviously!) Model A, dating from about 1904. Shortly after 1908, it was modified with a 2/4 minute attachment and a Model O Reproducer. The Model O can play either 2 minute or 4 minute cylinders by turning the knob that projects to the front (make sure there's no cylinder in place when you do this). To change the machine's gearing for the different records, there's a little flanged wheel immediately to the right of the pulley (where the belt is). By pushing this flanged wheel toward the pulley (to the left), the machine will be set to play 2 minute records. By pulling the flanged wheel away from the pulley (to the right), the machine will be set to play 4 minute records. Just be sure you have the reproducer set to play the same cylinders too.
The Model O reproducer uses a sapphire for both the 2 and 4 minute styli, so you can play your 4 minute wax and your Blue Amberol cylinders without making any changes.
The horn is, unfortunately, not for a phonograph, but for a radio. It will work, but it probably doesn't fit very well, and to a collector it looks kind of silly. Still okay in a pinch to hear what the records sound like.
The good news is that the Triumph was the best performing spring-driven cylinder phonograph offered by Edison until late 1909. It has a powerful (and heavy!) 3-spring motor that will play for a long time on a full winding.
You don't show the back of the phonograph, but if there are 4 holes drilled in the cabinet (or if there's a black painted bracket secured by 4 bolts), your machine was once equipped with a Cygnet horn. These look much like your radio horn, but larger, made of either metal or wood, and unfortunately a bit pricey to replace these days. If no holes are present in the back, there may be a thin stamped metal bracket underneath the cabinet, toward the front. This would denote the use of an Edison horn and supporting crane. If neither the back bracket nor the small bracket underneath are present, a non-Edison crane was used to support a "morning glory" horn.
I hope this information is helpful.
George P.
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Post by mallory757 on Sept 19, 2013 13:17:11 GMT -5
thank you george, i do have the thin metal horn also, see photo below, not sure it its in the best of shapes. i didnt think to photograph the backside of it, but i will check for those. is there a big market value for these, the player, and cylinders? what would be the best way for me to go about selling these? is there a big collectors market for them? Attachments:
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Post by phonogfp on Sept 19, 2013 14:45:43 GMT -5
Mallory, The small horn is far more interesting than the other horn. Does the elbow slide out of that small horn, or is it permanently attached? Well, I don't know what you mean by a "big collector's market." (Some of us are kind of skinny...) It's not like coins or dolls, but there are thousands of collectors in the U.S. alone. The value of your items, and the best way to sell them depends somewhat on your general location. East coast? West coast? In a city? Rural? Appraisals are often inaccurate - especially if the actual item cannot be seen in person. The answers to the questions above and whether or not there are holes in the back of your cabinet will help determine value. Also - whether the styli in the reproducer are in good shape or not. Replacement sapphires cost about $100 apiece. Generally, eBay is a good way to ascertain the value of what you have because the demand will determine the price. However, prices on eBay can fluctuate, and what sells for $350 on a given day may sell for more or for less the following week. Unfortunately, a Triumph will cost a lot to ship, and if you don't know how to pack it properly, there's a very good chance that it will arrive damaged. All of which argues against eBay. A set-price online site such as Craigslist can be a good option, if you know the general value of what you're selling and take proper precautions with people who respond to your ad. I'll wait for the answers to these questions before going further. George P.
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Post by mallory757 on Sept 19, 2013 15:49:41 GMT -5
hi George, i will look at the back tonight when i get home, i am on the west coast, in phoenix, az to be specific. i have been searching for someone local that can some and actually look at everything for me. as i am so lost with all the pieces, and parts i have, im not sure what the replacement sapphire is, i have attached 3 more images, i have 6 of the long skinny one, 2 that i KNOW are needles, and 6 of the little things in the boxes. and i do so much appreciate all the help and knowledge you have given me!!
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Post by phonogfp on Sept 19, 2013 20:32:51 GMT -5
Mallory,
Boy, I wish I lived near you! The top photo of your last posting shows 2 Model C Reproducers (one of these was original equipment on the machine when it was new), which cannot now be used on your machine because it was updated with the Model O reproducer and larger carriage. However, those extra reproducers are valuable extra parts. There's also a recorder in that photo, which, if it still has its recording stylus, is also valuable.
The second photo shows what was probably the original 2 minute mandrel & mainshaft that the Triumph was sold with in 1904.
I can't make any sense out of the bottom photo.
There are collectors in Phoenix, so if I were you, I'd put an ad in your local paper or Craigslist stating that you have an Edison Triumph Phonograph for sale with 200 cylinders and lots of accessories. I'd be surprised if you didn't get at least one response, if not several.
George P.
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Post by lucius1958 on Sept 19, 2013 20:57:52 GMT -5
The smaller horn looks as if it might have been made for a Columbia coin-op (I don't know whether the Edison coin-ops ever used nickeled horns)…
BillS
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Post by mallory757 on Sept 20, 2013 9:20:36 GMT -5
hi George, i looked at the back no holes, i did a little more research, and i saw some with the holes, but it was just the case, no actual phonograph inside of it. i did post this on craigslist, looking for someone to come by and check it all out. i did get one call yesterday, the person wanted 250, for only the phonograph, and in looking at other things online, i think that price might be a little low? what i am finding so hard in pricing this, is i see so many of the same item, ranging in prices, 400 difference in some cases. . thank you again for all of your information!
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Post by phonogfp on Sept 20, 2013 12:46:51 GMT -5
Mallory,
Yes, $250 for your phonograph alone is low. If the styli are good, your Model O reproducer is worth more than $250 by itself.
There's another online forum called the Talking Machine Forum. I suggest you post your machine, records, and accessories there, or if you wish, I'll post a link there for you that will lead readers to this thread. Just let me know if you'd like me to do that.
George P.
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Post by mallory757 on Sept 20, 2013 13:54:55 GMT -5
what do you think your best guess for a reasonable price is for just the phonograph? it is missing the crank. we borrowed one to ensure it worked right, and it does, just missing the crank. it appears i keep getting low balled. i will look at the other forum today, and take more pictures, and get everything written out, how many of each item i have. probably wouldn't be able to post until monday, as i am busy busy this weekend, so if it is easy to link, you can do that, or i can post myself on monday do you know if the 2 minute records are more valuable than the 4 minute ones? from what i have read, i know the price is dependent mostly on the song and artist, right? i would assume the condition of the box and lid also? i didnt mention it before, but i have about 25 or so catalogs all the books are dated 1910,1911,1913, and appear to be in fairly decent shape for being 100 years old. some pages and dog-eared, but all in all, in pretty good shape, i have attached pictures Attachments:
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Post by mallory757 on Sept 20, 2013 14:00:32 GMT -5
oops, i pressed post before i was done... are these collectible also? i have seen a few online, but i do not think they are selling, and unsure if they are of value
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alang
New Member
Posts: 45
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Post by alang on Sept 20, 2013 15:47:02 GMT -5
Yes, the catalogs are collectible, and since they are easy to ship eBay is a good option for those. I would post them individually with a starting bid of $9.99 in auction style and you should get them sold pretty quickly. As George said, posting the Triumph in the Yankee Trader section of the Talking Machine Forum will expose you to a larger audience of collectors and hopefully give you a fair price. Good luck Andreas
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