|
|
Post by lyneisfilm on Jul 29, 2021 23:14:04 GMT -5
I have most of a circa 1912 Edison Fireside Phonograph from my wife's family and am working on it and evaluating whether or how to bring it back to life. It is missing the main spring, the governor and brake lever. I have put a dc 12 v motor on it to test the reproducer, the screw drive on the carriage, etc. It takes 4 minute Ambersol cylinders and came with 12 of them. After some testing, I realized that the linear drive's threads on the carriage were both rusty and stuck with grit and grease especially at each end. This causes the carriage to jump around and it sounds awful. In the middle of its travel, it is quite clean and the sound actually isn't awful. Below is a link to a sort section of one of the cylinder in the middle. My question is how to clean the carriage threaded shaft.
Here is a link to a short video demonstrating that there might be hope for this phonograph. vimeo.com/580540445
Claude
|
|
|
|
Post by wagnerian on Jul 30, 2021 4:11:46 GMT -5
Dear Claude,
Assuming that the threads of the feedscrew are not actually damaged, the easiest way I have found to clean dried grease and rust out of the feed screw is simply to use a knife - here in the UK we refer to them as "Stanley Knives" but any modelling knife or pen knife will also work equally well. Simply put the knife blade in the first groove on the left hand side of the feed screw, when looking at the machine from the front, apply a little pressure with your hand, set the machine going and let the knife follow the grooves to the end. You may have to do this a few times to get rid of all the crud etc. You may also need to check the half-nut which drives the reproducer across along the feed screw and gently clean any grease or rust from that with a knife or a shgarp point.
Just a note, you have a Diamond B reproducer on your machine which means you can only play Blue Amberols or other indestructible(celluloid)cylinders. Whilst one of the best reproducers Edison made, a Diamond B will destroy any wax cylinders.
Hope this helps
Tim W-W
|
|
|
|
Post by lyneisfilm on Jul 30, 2021 18:14:17 GMT -5
Dear Claude, Assuming that the threads of the feedscrew are not actually damaged, the easiest way I have found to clean dried grease and rust out of the feed screw is simply to use a knife - here in the UK we refer to them as "Stanley Knives" but any modelling knife or pen knife will also work equally well. Simply put the knife blade in the first groove on the left hand side of the feed screw, when looking at the machine from the front, apply a little pressure with your hand, set the machine going and let the knife follow the grooves to the end. You may have to do this a few times to get rid of all the crud etc. You may also need to check the half-nut which drives the reproducer across along the feed screw and gently clean any grease or rust from that with a knife or a shgarp point. Just a note, you have a Diamond B reproducer on your machine which means you can only play Blue Amberols or other indestructible(celluloid)cylinders. Whilst one of the best reproducers Edison made, a Diamond B will destroy any wax cylinders. Hope this helps Tim W-W That is incredibly helpful as I am new to these machines and sorting out even details like the id of the reproducers is a challenge. I know this is a Fireside, but suspect that does not determine whether it is like an A,B,C,D,E,F which would be useful in trying to find replacement parts. Thanks for note on Blue Amberols. That is the only kind that arrived from the in-laws. With respect to the reproducer here are links to two photos. The second shows the "needle" and is there really a diamond there?
|
|
|
|
Post by lucius1958 on Jul 30, 2021 20:34:24 GMT -5
The Fireside only had 2 models: A and B. The model A is usually found with the smaller, slanted carriage, and has 2/4 minute gearing. The model B has the large horizontal carriage, and is 4 minute only. (some model As *may* have been upgraded with the later carriage, but I am not certain of that).
Yes, the stylus is a diamond point. Inspection with a good magnifier can see whether there is any wear to the point (usually a worn stylus will begin to "echo" on a cylinder). Styli are rather expensive to replace, but Wyatt Markus does an excellent job of that, as well as rebuilding the reproducer to perform like new.
- BillS
|
|
|
|
Post by lyneisfilm on Aug 4, 2021 1:32:13 GMT -5
The Fireside only had 2 models: A and B. The model A is usually found with the smaller, slanted carriage, and has 2/4 minute gearing. The model B has the large horizontal carriage, and is 4 minute only. (some model As *may* have been upgraded with the later carriage, but I am not certain of that). Yes, the stylus is a diamond point. Inspection with a good magnifier can see whether there is any wear to the point (usually a worn stylus will begin to "echo" on a cylinder). Styli are rather expensive to replace, but Wyatt Markus does an excellent job of that, as well as rebuilding the reproducer to perform like new. - BillS So mine is model B, which is identified on the plaque. I have made some progress. The tracking from start to finish seems OK because when I used a different cylinder, the beginning and end sounded the same. It has a diamond B reproducer as pointed out by Tim W-W. All my cylinders are Ambersol and 4 min in length. The sound isn't great, probably because the DC motor has flutter and is noisy.
I have cleaned up the spring drive system and it seems to turn quite easily, but without buying a used main spring, or spring housing and buying a governor, a braking lever, some springs to isolate the motor (some are missing) and maybe few other things the project will come to a standstill. So I am pondering what to do. Even if fully restored it is unlikely to occupy space in our house and will not go to the next generation as a heirloom.
Claude
|
|
|
|
Post by lucius1958 on Aug 5, 2021 21:24:34 GMT -5
You might contact George Vollema, at Great Lakes Antique Phonograph, about the parts you need: he has a good inventory. There would probably be no significant change in the motor parts between the A and B models, so that would help.
The most significant expense would be the horn and crane: the model B would have been factory equipped with a Cygnet horn & crane (you should see the 4 screw holes in the back for the crane). It may take time and money; but it's worth it to bring a family heirloom back to life.
BillS
|
|
|
|
Post by lyneisfilm on Aug 13, 2021 0:54:37 GMT -5
The Fireside only had 2 models: A and B. The model A is usually found with the smaller, slanted carriage, and has 2/4 minute gearing. The model B has the large horizontal carriage, and is 4 minute only. (some model As *may* have been upgraded with the later carriage, but I am not certain of that). Yes, the stylus is a diamond point. Inspection with a good magnifier can see whether there is any wear to the point (usually a worn stylus will begin to "echo" on a cylinder). Styli are rather expensive to replace, but Wyatt Markus does an excellent job of that, as well as rebuilding the reproducer to perform like new. - BillS It is definitely a Model B, and has a horizontal carriage. Your second comment about echoing and stylus wear is dead on. I have the electric drive motor and other parts working reasonably well, but I made a recording today and could hear an echo. I put the wave form in a Digital Audio Workstation program (Reaper) and the time lag for the echo came out about 350 ms. A perfect echo on a cylinder running 160 RPM would be 375 ms. Close enough for government work. So that means to get it working well I need a shaft and governor, a new spring inserted into the motor, a rebuild of the Diamond B or at least a new stylus, a brake lever and a couple of the springs supporting the motor plate system. Hmm, reminds me of my 65 Mustang that I sold after 41 years. The buyer put at least $20 k beyond the sale price into it, but I got a free ride in it some years later.
While this phonograph came directly down through my wife's family, there must have been a knucklehead in there somewhere who disassembled it and the lost some crucial parts.
|
|
