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Post by French_Touch_C-19 on May 19, 2008 3:23:04 GMT -5
Hello, I have a few months ago acquired a dance reproducer in very poor state. I'm planning to rebuid it but I must provide it a DIY stylus bar loading spring and yet another DIY diaphragm upper spring, as I haven't found the way to buy repros from the usual phono sites I know. I have found a proper sylus bar spring, but could anyone provide me with pics of the diaphragm loading spring and the way it's mounted on the diaphragm?
Thx in advance :-) François
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Post by maroongem on May 19, 2008 8:01:56 GMT -5
Hello, I have a few months ago acquired a dance reproducer in very poor state. I'm planning to rebuid it but I must provide it a DIY stylus bar loading spring and yet another DIY diaphragm upper spring, as I haven't found the way to buy repros from the usual phono sites I know. I have found a proper sylus bar spring, but could anyone provide me with pics of the diaphragm loading spring and the way it's mounted on the diaphragm? Thx in advance :-) François Francois, On the opposite side of the diamond on the stylus bar, there is a small hook soldered there. On the weight there is a small well drilled just in front of the tabs where the stulus bar is mounted. At the bottom of that well is a hook and that is where one end of the spring is connected. The opposite end of the spring is atached to the hook at the rear of the stylus bar. If you have the original Dance diaphragm, on the ivory button side there is a eyelet that protrudes from the button and this is where you hook one end of the spring. If you remove the three screws at the flange where the sound cup meets the outlet tube, you will see a bar across the inside of the sound cup opening. This is where you attach the other end of the spring. You now have two springs putting tension on opposite sides of the diaphragm, the stylus spring and the diaphragm spring. This is where the loudness of the Dance came into play. One important aside though, when Edison came out with the New Standard (later called the Edisonic) a year later in 1927, he used up the remaining old stock Dance bodies and these will not have the diaphragm spring. You can tell these by the serial number though. The original Dance Reproducers would be stamped with an "LD" prefixing the serial number which designated Loud Dance. The reworked ones from the factory would have "NS" also stamped at the end of the serial number and this designated New Standard. These as I mentioned earlier will not have the extra spring. I will take some pix today of both examples that I have in my collection so you can see the difference. Bill
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Post by French_Touch_C-19 on May 19, 2008 9:08:56 GMT -5
Thx a lot Bill, My reproducer is indeed a Dance one with the 3 flange screws. I have a few micro springs I am going to try and use to make a DIY upper spring, but I need pics to make the right choice. .. another thought.. the stylus bar axis holes on the weight have been slightly enlarged by wear and bad usage or tampering I suppose. I need to tighten the axis grip ..any idea as how I can do that ? soldering ? Super glue? Thx again in advance for your pics :-) François
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Post by maroongem on May 21, 2008 12:53:27 GMT -5
Hi Francois, Here are the pix I promised, without taking them entirely apart, this was the best I could do. Hope this helps. Bill This shows the hook & spring on the rear of the stylus barThis view is with the sound tube removed at the flange. You can see the spring from the diaphragm attached to the bar.This is a factory modified Dance when the New Standard was introduced. Edison was known for not wasting parts and here he used up the old Dance bodies. This has the single spring that is attached to the stylus and the spring loaded diaphragm was done away with. Note the "NS" stamped at the end of the serial number. You can also see the old "LD" designation at the beginning of the serial number.This is the typical Dance serial number. Note the "LD" at the beginning of the serial number.
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Post by maroongem on May 21, 2008 12:58:58 GMT -5
I need to tighten the axis grip ..any idea as how I can do that ? soldering ? Super glue? Thx again in advance for your pics :-) François Francois, The stylus bar should rotate freely in the holes, so I woudn't try to close them up unless they are terribly over enlarged. Bill
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Post by French_Touch_C-19 on May 22, 2008 3:17:28 GMT -5
Well, Bill, actually,they do are over enlarged. Also, there are 2 ways for the stylus bar axis to be installed : 1) Axis fermly set in stylus bar and free to rotate in shoulders 2) Axis free to rotate in stylus bar and fermly set in shoulders.
The second way, to my experience is usually the best sounding one, though it often demands a bit of TLC.. adapted micro-drills and patience. Moreover, it's the only way when the shoulder holes are over enlarged like in my dance reproducer, otherwise the sound will be unclear + distorted Cheers François
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Post by French_Touch_C-19 on May 22, 2008 3:27:17 GMT -5
Thx a lot for your pics :-) They are going to go direct to my archive.. i'll try and post pics of my Dance reproducer once the stylus bar hook is soldered on the new stylus bar, and all springs attached :-) That should be round end of next week..
Cheers François
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Post by French_Touch_C-19 on May 23, 2008 4:58:01 GMT -5
Another question Bill, Is the upper spring in tension when the diaphragm is at rest (diamond not on record)? Thx in advance François
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Post by maroongem on May 26, 2008 10:46:54 GMT -5
Francois,
The upper spring is applying slight tension to the diaphragm upwards. When the Reproducer is lowered onto a record, the stylus link is now pulling it in the opposite direction with the aid of the spring attaced to the rear of the stylus bar.
Bill
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Post by French_Touch_C-19 on May 27, 2008 2:31:37 GMT -5
That's what I figured Thx Bill :-) by the way I have finished fine setting the stylus bar on its axis. i also have affixed a diy stylus bar hook for the tension spring. Now onto the upper spring and tension spring installation..:-) Kind Regards
François
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Post by maroongem on May 27, 2008 6:40:18 GMT -5
That's great Francois! Looking forward to seeing and maybe (?) hearing the finished product.
Bill
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Post by French_Touch_C-19 on Jun 2, 2008 17:33:42 GMT -5
Hi, Here are the pics I promised with more global pics of my hand made C19 and sound files I recorded with a Sony electret Ms907 micro and Iriver H340 : Starting with the stylus bar spring hook Then Let's solder the new Stylus bar tension spring -inside its hole -the backside soldering Now the diaphragm tension spring My Dance Reproducer Serial Nr And to finish : The marvel playing The whole phono as it was when bought then finished Initial Stage (it was an S-19) Intermediate stage with S-19 Horn Almost finished : Now some sounds in mp3 format: Feel free to leave your comments.. more recordings to come next week (The Ms907 is recording directly in front of the C19 horn at 3/4 height) Cheers from Paris and thks for your help François
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Post by maroongem on Jun 2, 2008 18:25:04 GMT -5
Francois,
Man, that sounds great!!! That is the 1st style weight with the flat sides and the added weight. I've never seen that on a DANCE before, just the early Edisonics. Crackerjack job!!!!
Bill
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Post by French_Touch_C-19 on Jun 3, 2008 3:38:28 GMT -5
Thx Bill, Actually, I'm building an Image database and a sound database. You can find the image database at usera.imagecave.com/francoisparis/The sound database is yet to come I will also soon start refitting a 3rd generation gun finish standard and a nickel plated Edisonic reproducers with new stylus bars / axes Larry had sent me two versions of his diaphragms. I myself also had made modified versions of the Bogantz diaphragm and yet another white plastified cardboard version ( the one that sells on Ebay). I'll post the pix of those diaphragms on PhotoCave too I'm eventually going to start recording 3 DD with all those diaphragms mounted on my spare gun finish standard reproducer and my fine tuned original Edison Standard reproducer for comparison. I'll post the sound files on my sound files sharing site. What would you think about another poll with those recordings? Cheers François
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Post by larryh on Jun 4, 2008 12:00:39 GMT -5
Francious,
Great job in my humble opinion. And great sound on your recordings also. I don't hear anything that seems amiss on this end.. Look forward to some direct comparisons of various kinds of music using yours, the other new ones and mine as well.
I find that many classical orchestral or salon type records will expose great variety of ability of a diaphragm to detail the subtle parts of the music. Piano is also helpful in that vain.
thanks for keeping us abreast of your project.
Larry
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