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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2008 9:55:42 GMT -5
Well, at least not in my area. Last couple of times, I went wandering around, to some of my favorite antique malls. I have come across quite a few Edsion Cylinder machines. Some in good condtion, and some that would require work. All of various prices. From $295-795. I found a two in the same place. One needs a belt, cranck and horn, the other needed a cranck. The third, I found, well it was just priced to high, and was frim. It's as if this dealer thinks he will get that much for it. That, is not happening. Especially, since he had no cylinders with it. There must be a lot of people who think they will get a lot of money, from these machines, but they won't. I also know, some have just been sitting there for months, and not moving. If they want to sell them, they should be priced cheaper.
The same thing with the Disc Machines as well. Victrola's and others included.
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Post by French_Touch_C-19 on Jun 3, 2008 11:46:38 GMT -5
Hello Paul, You might be right, but reading the threads on this forum, I don't think market value is the main reason why someone will start a collection of phonos & records, including myself. To me it's more a marvellous occasion to travel back in time. I suppose some are more "visual" and they will not be touched, but for an "auditive" kind of person like me, hearing a 100 y/o recording the way it was heard then has a lot of magic :-) François PS Just realised You were actually talking about vendors, not collectors as such... I'm afraid my line is pointless then
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Post by neophone on Jun 3, 2008 13:28:06 GMT -5
Paul, I think you're, for the most part, always going to see inflated prices in "Antique Shops" and the like (particularly in large urban centers) I've given up hope of ever seeing a nice machine in a shop here in Boston-at least one that wasn't priced in the five digit range! Those shops aren't marketing their wares for the likes of us. Victor still rules the roost, I believe, mostly because they came up with a name that fired the imagination: "Victrola" and they built a solid no-nonsense machine that sold very well in it's day. Most people who shop in those type of stores aren't phonograph collectors, they're "antique collectors" they want something that looks nice and will made them look erudite when they show it off to their party guests. I do believe that most average folks today have no idea that ole TAE had anything at all to do with phonographs. Most people, I believe, think a Victrola is any wind-up phonograph especially one with a big horn on top―we know better. I think there's a perception that Edison machines are all older and rarer that Victors and of course the cylinder machines seem so much more exotic to modern eyes. There are enough people out there who think nearly anything old is worth a fortune (Antiques Roadshow anyone! ;D), that these shop owners are willing to sit tight and wait for the maximum return. And of course if they sell everything off in their shops, well then they've got to go out and fill 'em up again-and that's a lot of work. ;D To my way of thinking- E-Bay, Craigslist, Want Advertiser type magazines, and local networking is the way to find talking machines for reasonable money. Regards, J.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2008 17:39:28 GMT -5
Thank you J. The one thing I have noticed, is that most of the Victrola's are reasonably priced. At least the internal horn machine's are? It's the External horn ones that are priced in the five digit range. The lowest price I have seen, for Victor external horn Talking Machine. Was $960.00. I will admit, I did sepnd quite a bit on my cylinder machine, but it was worth it. True, I'm sure I could have found one at a lower price, but not in good condtion. Your right about, people thinking the Edsion Cylinder machine are older, and rarer. Even though, I have found several cylinder machines. So I know for a fact that they are not rare.
What's amazing to me is finding the same phongraph, in the same place, for sale. Months latter.
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Post by maroongem on Jun 3, 2008 18:01:17 GMT -5
Unfortunately, like most hobbies, collecting phonographs isn't inexpensive. You have to remember that we are in an age where the outside horn phonograph disappeared from production over 80 years ago. These were replaced by later machines and through attrition were destroyed in wrecking yards and land fills. The ones that remained untouched in Nanna's attic are a rare find today so we have to accept the fact that we are going to have to purchase from dealers most of the time, whether it be in an antique shop, eBay or from a flea market (and most dealers there are no longer dummies because of the internet & books) or online. Outside horn disc machines have always been more desirable IMHO because let's face it, discs are everywhere. Nine times out of ten if you show someone a cylinder they'll say "What the heck is that?" The internal horn machines made by Victor were in the many thousands compared to the outside horn machines and were utilized for a far greater time due to their size and lack of that "damned horn." The bottom line is, if you want to play in this field, you have to pay, plain and simple. Don't hold your breath for that $50.00 Opera or Vic-VI!!!!!
Bill
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2008 18:21:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I wasn't hopeing for a $50.00 machine. Save those, for the people who have or find those darned crap-olas. Your right, about the External horn Victor machines. They tend to sell quicker then, the internal horn machines. However, the Edsion cylinder machines, don't sell as quickly. More people, do recognise, the external horn Victor machines, more then the Edsion cylinder machines. I shouldn't expect the external horn machine's to be cheap. However, I should expect the internal horn machine's to be. Since, as you said they made more of them.
I would love to have an external horn Victor Talking Machine, but alas, that's not posible. Since, they are expnsive. Maybe I should look for a nice floor machine. I am however, still looking for an Amberola.
Paul
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Post by maroongem on Jun 3, 2008 18:40:43 GMT -5
Paul,
Unless you are extremely lucky and find that "Nanna machine" in the attic, plan to pay at least $300.00 for a real decent Amberola 30.
Bill
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2008 19:40:13 GMT -5
That, I can do. $300.00 is more reasonable, then say $500.00.
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Post by donpettee on Jun 4, 2008 17:21:38 GMT -5
All collectables are a bit affected by a lack of interest by younger folks it seems i collect radios too and they have a bit more"interest" but not much of course there are exceptions as with all collectables but the radios from the 20"s and early thirties that are eqivalent to a home or standard no one wants
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2008 19:11:45 GMT -5
Actually, I have a nice floor model, form the 1920's in my home. It doesn't work, but it looks nice. I even have a small stained glass "Tiffany style" lamp, on top, along with an radio framed ad.
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Post by MT Phono on Jun 16, 2008 0:22:24 GMT -5
Paul,
These are interesting observations. The reason you see so many unsold Homes/Standards etc is that, like you said, they are overpriced. The market is oversaturated with the common stuff. Hundreds of thousands were made, several thousand of each are probably still in circulation. There are only so many collectors who want these models.
Take a Class M, Idelia, Polyphone, Bettini, Auxetophone, Vic XX, etc. Collectors still regularly pay $10K and into the $20K - 40K range for single machines even in this economy. It's simply supply and demand.
You are right, the dealers SHOULD lower their prices but they are out of touch. They aren't experts and want the big payday (which I doubt they will get).
Scott
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 9:04:37 GMT -5
Thank you Scott. Not only, are they over priced sometimes, but are incomplete as well. Like a missing winding cranck, reproducer, no horn, or a belt is missing, or it doesn't even work. Of course, why anyone would want to sell, a non functional item, is beyond me?
Your right, about a more rare item, being sold at a high price, and collectors scrambeling to buy them. But, a more common machine? Well to the dealer, they think what they have is rare, and so list it fairly high. Even though, I know it's not that rare. As for an external horn 78 machine, like a Victor talking machine. I can understand the high price. Since not too many of those machines were produced, let alone survived into the 21st century.
Paul
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Post by maroongem on Jun 16, 2008 9:19:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 9:56:47 GMT -5
Thanks Bill. Nice machine, too bad it's a local pick up only, and it's in New York.
I'll still keep looking though.
Paul
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Post by MT Phono on Jun 16, 2008 11:18:51 GMT -5
Thank you Scott. Not only, are they over priced sometimes, but are incomplete as well. Like a missing winding cranck, reproducer, no horn, or a belt is missing, or it doesn't even work. Of course, why anyone would want to sell, a non functional item, is beyond me? Your right, about a more rare item, being sold at a high price, and collectors scrambeling to buy them. But, a more common machine? Well to the dealer, they think what they have is rare, and so list it fairly high. Even though, I know it's not that rare. As for an external horn 78 machine, like a Victor talking machine. I can understand the high price. Since not too many of those machines were produced, let alone survived into the 21st century. Paul Actually the only explanation for the external 78 machines is again supply and demand. I think the supply is almost as high for many of the Vic 1-6 line but the demand is much higher. As stated previously there are far more 78s discs floating around than cylinder records and people are more familiar with them. I know of several people who have Vic V's but don't collect phonos or records - they like the look. I doubt they would be interested in seeing an Edison Home with 14" black and brass horn on the shelf. Not only do more collectors want Vic V's but also non-collectors so prices is pushed up.
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