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Post by cowboychuck17 on Jun 21, 2008 19:01:14 GMT -5
Hello everyone. While going through the basement at our family business (since ~1910), I found 4 phonographs. With a little looking, found them to be: Edison BC 34 Edison CC 32 Edison LC 38 Victrola 260
I was wondering what value I should place on these to insure them. I won't be selling them...maybe restoring them though, so how much is too much to put into the restoration? They aren't in bad shape at all. They have sat covered with curtains or rugs in a room that hasn't been entered in 75 years. Enter me, and thus, my question. Thanks! Look forward to responses and learning the history of the machines.
Chuck
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Post by lukewarmwater on Jun 21, 2008 19:49:20 GMT -5
The Edisons are all Diamond Disc Phonographs which play vertically recorded Diamond Disc records using a conical permanent diamond stylus. The entire reproducer and horn is driven across the record surface with a gear drive that is engaged when the lift handle at the right front of the bed plate is in the vertical position. Diamond Disc records are played at 80 rpm. In their day, these were arguably the finest sounding phonographs and records produced.
The BC-34 is a "Baby Console", sold from May 1917-August 1927. This were the least expensive of the models introduced ca. 1917 and has a single spring motor and in the early models, a small 100-series horn, later increased to a slightly larger 150-series horn. These sold for $175 when new.
The CC-32 is a "Chippendale Console" (or rather Edison's interpretation of Chinese Chippendale styling), sold from April 1922-August 1927. Original cost was $295 and is equipped with a more robust double-spring motor and the 250-series horn (the largest). The CC-32 is a lowboy version of the upright C-19 styling.
The LC-38 is a "London Console", another low-cost ($135-$145) single-spring, 100-series horn model, introduced in August 1922.
The Victor VV-260 Victrola is a flat-topped lowboy Victrola that was produced in four iterations (VV-260, 260-A, 260-B, 260-C) from late January 1922 through 1924 and sold for $260. Double-spring motor. 53,593 produced.
Generally speaking, most lowboys are not as desirable as uprights to collectors as they simply take up more space. The Diamond Disc machines with smaller horns and smaller motors are not as desirable as the machines with larger motors and horns because they require more winding and are sonically less impressive. Also, machines that were cheaper when they were new tended to sell in greater quantities, consequently there are more surviving and available today. All these factors tend to suppress their value and desirability on the collectors market -- not to take anything away from them as artifacts or the finely-built things that they are. Personally, I don't appraise machines for a number of reasons, and, I'm a collector not a dealer so I have to respectfully decline to give values. Perhaps someone else more qualified to speak to market values can chime in here, but at least you know a little more about them now.
The diaphragms in the reproducers of the Diamond Disc machines are ultra-thin sheets of a rice paper laminated together with shellac. There is a cork dampener and a whale-bone button where the woven silk stylus bar linkage attaches. there is considerable discussion amongst collectors as to how the sound of these machines has changed because of aging of the diaphragm. There are some restorers who replace the diaphragm with one made from more modern materials. Whether the sound is improved or not, or is closer to the way these machines originally sounded is open to debate. You may want to investigate that aspect of restoration before proceeding. At any rate, the reproducer -- and particularly the diamond stylus -- should be inspected by a qualified restorer. If the stylus is chipped, it will damage the records; and if it is worn, it will not ride at the bottom of the record groove where the sound information is contained. Replacement styli are available, but the work needs to be performed by someone who knows what they are doing. The Victor reproducer should have the rubber gaskets replaced. These harden over time resulting in attenuated sound quality and increasing wear on the records because the diaphragm is less compliant and causes the needle to fight the groove. Be sure to buy plenty of new steel needles and replace the needle after every play. 78rpm records contain ground slate dust as a fine abrasive in order to wear the needle, so the needle doesn't wear the record (which when new, cost approximately $15 apiece in today's money). Eventually, the record will wear out over many, many, many plays, but the needles are sacrificial.
The motors should be removed, disassembled, cleaned of old grease, oil, and dirt, reassembled, relubricated and regulated -- again, and particularly in the case of the more complex Edison mechanisms -- by a qualified restorer. The spring barrels are packed with grease to allow the coils to slide past one another easily and noiselessly when unwinding. The old grease hardens and may cause the springs to thump and jerk when playing a record. This sudden release of energy can break the springs (a relatively expensive repair) and cause records to skip. These are precision-made machines, so the mechanisms should be in perfect order -- and don't forget to lubricate them regularly -- more often if played frequently.
If you personal message me I will be happy to give you contact info for restorers I use. Again, anyone wanting to chime in here would be welcome.
Do as little to the original cabinet finishes as possible. I clean dirty cabinets with waterless Gojo hand cleaner (without pumice) wiped off with a cotton cloth. Koton Kleanser is not any more effective than Gojo and costs way too much.
Specific information on the machines from The Edison Disc Phonographs by George Frow, and Victor Data Book by Robert Baumbach.
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Post by cowboychuck17 on Jun 21, 2008 19:57:52 GMT -5
Wow, thanks a ton. That's all I need to know. I am a huge collector of military and disneyana, so I could probably formulate an educated guess of the value based on what you said. There are also close to 300 edison and even more victor records there...as well as several dozen cylinders that I am guessing are the cylinders people are referring to on these boards. Without looking, I would guess there are a lot of multiples of the same titles since these were all merchandise at one point. Once they are catalogged, I will start looking for people to trade the repeats to. Thanks again!
Chuck
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Post by lukewarmwater on Jun 21, 2008 20:21:14 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind if you contacted me regarding duplicates! ;D
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