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Post by maroongem on Feb 15, 2009 7:24:50 GMT -5
The mandrel doesn't appear to be damaged. As for the screw...there is a tiny bit of it sticking out the back (ie inside the carriage ring). the top broke off just inside the carriage, so I'm at a loss to try and remove it. What I have done in cases like this where there is a portion of screw showing is to use a screw head file and cut a slot into the section that's exposed. I then give it a shot of penetrating oil, let it sit for a bit and then remove it with an appropriate sized screw driver. You can get a file at a clock & watch supply house or make your own. I can give you details if you are interested. Do you own a Dremel tool? If you do, they make thin saw blades that you can cut a slot into the bottom of the screw that's exposed, and work it out in reverse if it won't come out through the bottom of the tapped hole. You may need to make a blade that will fit into the slot and inside the carriage eye. Bill
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Feb 15, 2009 9:29:39 GMT -5
Here are my two plans to extract the screw. First, I'm going to heat it up red hot to loosen it up...blast it with penetrating oil, and try to extract it this way. If this fails, I know a jeweler with this intense miniature laser welder, or something along these lines for jewelry work, and ask him to weld on a tiny rod or some to the end inside the carriage ring, so I can extract it this way. He's fixed cracked pistol magazines for me before and his work is top notch.
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Post by klinkmi on Feb 15, 2009 12:20:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't use a drill press or even a drill there would be too much risk damaging the treads. Does the screw look clean, if so I would try mating it were it is broken , using a little force you might be able to get it out far enough to grab it. Also was the mandrel damaged in the first pic it seems angled i have been reading this guys advice since he joined this forum-------he does not have a clue--- but thinks he does. it makes the truly knowlegable of us on this and other forums look bad. but you get what you pay for!you paid nothing and you got nothing---so you are even. i own a machine shop here in N.Y No one said I was Expert or claim to be on Edison Phonographs. In the case of restoration experience is the key . I am only suggesting things that I have experienced first hand. If you feel that I have posted something in vain please correct me. I am always open for constructive criticism. Mike
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Post by bostonmike1 on Feb 15, 2009 17:05:23 GMT -5
i have been reading this guys advice since he joined this forum-------he does not have a clue--- but thinks he does. it makes the truly knowlegable of us on this and other forums look bad. but you get what you pay for!you paid nothing and you got nothing---so you are even. i own a machine shop here in N.Y What have they been putting in the Boston water supply lately? i live in N.Y.C. ----maybe you have heard of it. congratulations!!! your record for incorrect information and poor advice on this and other forums continues.
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Post by matty on Feb 15, 2009 17:07:59 GMT -5
LOL, and what incorrect information & poor advise might that be?
Perhaps instead of deliberately try to rub people up the wrong way, you should try using a little common courtesy. People use different methods to achieve the same goal, and tell someone they're an idiot because they use a different method to what you use is just plain rude! Nobody here is an "expert" at anything, even if they "think" they are, and I do mean nobody. The object of this and other forums, is to discuss our HOBBY and share different ideas & technics, not to belittle other people so you can feel good about yourself.
I myself have removed a similar screw by drilling a small hole in the center, then screwing a small wood screw into the hole until it jams in, and continued to screw the broken screw out the other side. Is this the right way...No. Is there a better way...Yes Did it work...Yes
Sometimes you make do with what you've got to do something. If you run a machine shop, then doing it the "right" way is no problem for you, but we don't all own machine shops, or french polishing or plating businesses, so we make do. No harm in that. What's poor advise to some is good advise to others! And you've been "completely" wrong before on this very forum, but nobody's made a big deal about it. It's just a hobby.
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Feb 15, 2009 20:30:41 GMT -5
I am going to play Rodney King and say "can't we all just get along?" I'm no expert...heck, at times I feel like my work will be belittled by any and all. However, a dear friend restores all sorts of things and his philosophy is "if I like it, then that's what matters." Well, I try to restore with historical accuracy in mind, but also so that the end result is attractive, functional, and enjoyable.
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Post by klinkmi on Feb 15, 2009 21:14:32 GMT -5
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Post by maroongem on Feb 15, 2009 21:31:31 GMT -5
Looking at the pix you supplied, I think the lid is repairable with a bit of patience. It appears that all the slivers, etc are present so if you have some quick clamps, you should be able to repair it w/o it being readily detected.
Bill
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Feb 15, 2009 23:17:12 GMT -5
I rebuilt the bedframe, sanded it down and stained it. I'll get a photo up tomorrow, but it didn't turn out that badly I don't think. The lid will take longer, but in the meantime I'm going to degrease the bedplate, gears, and disassemble the motor. All the metal parts are DIRTY! I'm going to try basic engine degreaser on the gears and top parts to see how well it cleans off the old crud.
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diggr
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by diggr on Feb 16, 2009 2:57:11 GMT -5
Here are my two plans to extract the screw. First, I'm going to heat it up red hot to loosen it up...blast it with penetrating oil, and try to extract it this way. If this fails, I know a jeweler with this intense miniature laser welder, or something along these lines for jewelry work, and ask him to weld on a tiny rod or some to the end inside the carriage ring, so I can extract it this way. He's fixed cracked pistol magazines for me before and his work is top notch. I for one would be very careful about applying large amounts of heat! Unless of course you've done it before. What kind of metal is it? Would it melt? The whole idea of heating works on the principal of expanding the outer part faster than the inner. In this case you might not be able to get enough heat into the carriage ring quick enough to have it free the screw before the heat transfers to the screw and causes it to expand also. If you would care to, E-Mail me a pic of the part. Perhaps I can help come up with a plan. If that carriage ring looks anything like the one in my Amberola then we probably need to be thinking about a pin vise and a tiny drill bit to take out the remaining part of the screw.
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Post by matty on Feb 16, 2009 5:47:07 GMT -5
The carriage is cast iron, so I'd be very careful also. It could shatter very easily!
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Feb 16, 2009 13:37:16 GMT -5
No to that then. I slotted the end and tried to unscrew it from the back, but to no avail. I'm taking it to this jeweler with a micro laser welder to have him see if he can weld on a tiny post and a nut to the nub on the inside of the ring, so I can remove it this way.
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Feb 19, 2009 23:15:20 GMT -5
I'm waiting on the carriage from the jeweler, and have been busy with the rebuild. I have the bedplate as clean as I can get it...some of that grime just refuses to come off. I disassembled the motor completely, cleaned all the parts, relubricated them and reassembled the motor. One rather odd quirk was found...the brass tensioner pulley has been frozen for so long that the belt has worn a groove in the brass! No matter how much cleaning I did the darn thing just don't turn...and the groove is a good indication that it hasn't turned in a LONG time.
As for the case, I am using a junker bottom and bedframe. I call it a junker since it was so battered I never intended to use it...and well, now it's the nice one. I wanted to ask what to do about screws that refuse to hold. I just dabbled wood glue on the screws and then inserted them in their respective holes this way to try and get them to "lock." I wanted to ask what you all do to make them hold.
The other annoyance is that the lid support has a bend in it and despite the best of pliers, it just won't straighten out. I realize a good vise would probably take care of this, but for now it will be the way it is. I guess this player is just getting cleaned and left in the antique look, rather than a "like new" appearance. So long as it plays well, this is ultimately all that matters.
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diggr
New Member
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Post by diggr on Feb 20, 2009 3:54:42 GMT -5
.... I wanted to ask what to do about screws that refuse to hold. I just dabbled wood glue on the screws and then inserted them in their respective holes this way to try and get them to "lock." I wanted to ask what you all do to make them hold.... Assuming we're talking about wood screws...I've had some success in the past with putting a bit of glue and wooden toothpics, or portions thereof, into the hole to build up the material and then redriving the screw. You don't get the holding power of the original but it's better than nothing. Sort of a quick and dirty Heli-Coil.
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Post by martin1 on Feb 20, 2009 11:41:59 GMT -5
Hi Frank! Have you tried soaking it in Lacquer Thinner? I use it for cleaning motor parts and get good results. Good luck! Martin
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