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Post by rainey on Jan 7, 2010 3:23:58 GMT -5
My parents bought an Edison C200 a while back. I don't know much about the device, but I have read enough about it to know the basics of its operation and that dealers called it the "Adam". In 1996 we moved and in the process the bottom half of the reproducer (the weight and the stylus) was "lost". However, I recently became interested in it and discovered it was hiding behind the horn (I guess it somehow fell off or was taken off and fell through the gap in the back). I can connect it to the rest of the reproducer, but the string attaching the stylus to the cork thing was broken. Is there a way I can fix this easily? Also, is there a place on the device that tells when it was made? I can find patent dates, but I can't find the production date. Also, our edison says "sold by N. Dahlkamp chicago heights, ILL" under the gold "edison" on the lid in the same gold ink. Does anyone know what that is all about because I have yet to see it on another one.
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shellophone
Junior Member
Stand close enough and you can hear the ocean!
Posts: 69
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Post by shellophone on Jan 7, 2010 7:09:19 GMT -5
Hello rainey!
There are a number of repair people (some on this board) that can help you. The string is called the linkage and it is made of braided silk with metal eyelets crimped on at either end. The part that came loose is the weight. It is attached to the tail of the body of the reproducer with a hinge block. The stylus is actually the polished conical diamond itself which is mounted into the stylus bar. The stylus bar pivots between the two bosses cast in the bottom of the weight.
You wont find an actual production date on a Diamond Disc Phonograph. Edison's sequential numbering was sporadic. It is typical to just establish the production date range for that model and extrapolate the approximate production year by comparing the serial number range of surviving examples if available (this may entail research, examining dozens of examples, comparing notes with other collectors, or referring to an established database). In other words (and this is over-simplified), if a model was produced for four years and the lowest known serial number existing is 100 and the highest is 1000 and your machine is #758, you can conjecture that your machine was made near the beginning of the final year of production. This method is not accurate though because some models sold well initially and then tapered off gradually so more would have been produced in the earlier years than the later years. Some models were all assembled in one year and then sold out of warehouse stock for several years afterward. While pinpointing the precise day/week/month of production for something as common as 95% of all Diamond Disc models would be nice, it doesn't really contribute much to the general knowledge base as most of these models were relatively unchanged for their entire production run. The C-200 was introduced August 1, 1915 and was superseded by the S-19 (Sheraton) gradually during 1919.
The C-200 has a single-spring motor and a 150-series (medium-sized) horn. They sold for $200 when new.
The "Sold by N. Dahlkamp, etc." decal on the machine identifies the dealer that sold the machine originally and is simply a form of advertising, much the way car dealers often put a badge or logo or license plate frame on a car to advertise who sold it. It (and the factory Edison logo) is not 'ink', per se, but rather a decal applied to the cabinet.
Hope this helps a bit in understanding what you have. Perhaps someone can help with the repair aspect for you.
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Post by rainey on Jan 7, 2010 13:17:26 GMT -5
Thank you for the help I have been learning a lot about my DD. Is there any way I can fix the linkage myself? And I noticed on ebay there are a lot of new diaphragms and gaskets so that leads me to believe one can easily take out the old diaphragm. I am assuming this must be done to change the linkage. The wood itself isn't in good shape (dings and scratches) and the grill is barely supporting itself. Almost all of the gold accents on the actual mechanism are all but gone. So what I am saying is that it has seen better days I guess the c200 is kinda hard to come by because I haven't seen to many pictures of it. I think it is the original grille cloth but I don't have any idea its kind of a goldish fabric. I'll try to get pictures up soon
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shellophone
Junior Member
Stand close enough and you can hear the ocean!
Posts: 69
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Post by shellophone on Jan 7, 2010 14:59:30 GMT -5
I'll let others on the board more attuned to reproducer repairs address your repair questions.
The C-200 is a common model. The scarcer/rarer/desirable models are some of the very earliest (i.e., the A-60, A-80, A-250, A-375), the fanciest (i.e., B-450, Art-Case Diamond Disc models), latest (i.e., the Schubert and Beethoven Edisonics, and the Long-Play series), or the oddest (i.e., the Army & Navy Diamond Disc). The vast majority of other models are still commonly found. The 'Official Lab Model' machines -- meaning that there are more springs in the motor and that they are equipped with the largest 250-series horns -- are more sought after than the smaller machines, but even Lab Model machines in many model types are very common (C-250, C-19). Condition is very important in a Diamond Disc Phonograph -- especially in the more common models -- since there are still a lot to choose from.
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Post by rainey on Jan 8, 2010 20:15:24 GMT -5
Thank you. What type of oil/grease do you suggest to use? I cleaned it up except for the felt i remember reading somewhere about a specific chemical one should use but I can't remember any suggestions for cleaning it?
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Post by rainey on Jan 8, 2010 20:28:28 GMT -5
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Post by larryh on Jan 8, 2010 20:33:23 GMT -5
I use a good 3 in 1 oil or maybe 20 weight motor oil from the same company. As to grease, a can of bearing grease like an automotive store would sell will work fine in my experience. If your talking about the felt pads that ride the governor speed disc, then again a oil such as 3 in 1 will work, just don't put excessive oil on it or when it turns it will throw oil all over including the grill cloth. I found that out the hard way. Some machines have a metal plate in front of the governor to stop that, but others don't. The governor sleeve where the weights spin around on rides a shaft, it should also have a few drops of oil on it once in a while.
There is a Edison Service Mans manual in the technical section I believe and would give tips about how to maintain your machine if you haven't seen it as yet.
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Post by martinola on Jan 8, 2010 23:32:14 GMT -5
Hi rainey.
You have a nice machine there. (I especially like the dealer decal in that it gives the machine an extra bit of history.) I wouldn't do much more than keep the finish clean and only touch up the few spots on the grille that are missing the veneer. It's way nicer to have an original finish with dings and scratches than a refinished machine. Careful cleaning with a bit of touching up can do real wonders. Remember that you have all the time in the world, so don't rush anything.
As to the gold work, one thing you might try is to take the worst pieces and strip off the lacquer with lacquer thinner. Very often the lacquer looks quite grungy while the actual gold is comparatively good. After cleaning, spray it with a fresh coat of semi-gloss or satin lacquer. I did this with my C-19, and while it still wasn't perfect, it looked a whole lot better. If you do that be real careful as the gold plate is extremely thin and it's easy to wear through. I used a soft toothbrush to do the cleaning. (Unless you're going to pull the motor and horn anyway, I'd probably not do this to the tonearm.)
Actually I cheated on one part. The turntable was so rusty, that I ended up using gold paint. It actually looks quite good, (only a little of it shows under the felt). Since plating the hardware would be about $300, I'm feeling quite good about the results I got. Anyway, good luck with your machine! You're off to a good start.
Regards, Martin
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Jan 9, 2010 0:45:13 GMT -5
Thank you. What type of oil/grease do you suggest to use? I cleaned it up except for the felt i remember reading somewhere about a specific chemical one should use but I can't remember any suggestions for cleaning it? To clean the turntable felt, use naphtha. You can buy it in cans at Home Depot or Lowes. Basically, sprinkle amount of it on the felt working from the center to the outer edge, like a spiral pattern. Use a clean white rag to then blot the felt, working from the inside out again. You want to get the entire felt moistened with the naphtha when you do this, otherwise you will get spots.
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Post by rainey on Jan 9, 2010 2:51:34 GMT -5
You have a nice machine there. (I especially like the dealer decal in that it gives the machine an extra bit of history.) I wouldn't do much more than keep the finish clean and only touch up the few spots on the grille that are missing the veneer. Thank you the finish really turned out nice after I used some old english, especially places that didn't get much sun exposure like the underside of the lid. I really like the dealer sticker too and I was wondering if anybody knows if it would come off (as well as the "edison" sticker) if I used old english oil on it. It was the first thing my parents bought together as a married couple so I'm terrified of messing it up. I can tell that nobody has ever tried to clean that part of it because it is a rectangle of grime. You can tell in this picture We like the antiqued brass/gold look on the metal work and we don't want to risk loosing anymore plating so we don't know if we are even going to worry about cleaning the reproducer and horn arm any. As far as the grille goes the picture doesn't really show how bad of shape its in something almost always falls off if it is looked at the wrong way and it is split at the top so we were thinking of framing it and the original grille cloth above the phonograph and getting a new grill to prevent further damage to the original grill. But does anybody know how to repair the reproducer?
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Post by rainey on Jan 9, 2010 3:01:00 GMT -5
To clean the turntable felt, use naphtha. Do you mean something like this?: or this?:
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shellophone
Junior Member
Stand close enough and you can hear the ocean!
Posts: 69
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Post by shellophone on Jan 9, 2010 8:17:24 GMT -5
Well, that reproducer is pretty far gone, so it will need a replacement diaphragm and new linkage. Also, the stylus needs to be checked for damage/wear.
You may want to 'trade-in' your old reproducer against a re-built example, or simply buy another on eBay or at a phonograph show. In what part of the country do you live?
'3-in-1 Oil' contains vegetable oils that can become gummy over time. I would recommend Singer Sewing Machine oil which is highly refined.
The decal is under the top layers of the finish, so unless you use denatured alcohol, you won't damage the decals.
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Jan 9, 2010 8:40:47 GMT -5
To clean the turntable felt, use naphtha. Do you mean something like this?: or this?: Blue can = YES
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Post by larryh on Jan 9, 2010 8:47:08 GMT -5
I wouldn't bet on the dealer decal not being effected. On our piano the brand name is under the finish and can be cleaned over, but when I Attempted to clean the area where the dealers decal was it turned the gold decal silver. So it was applied locally and not under the finish. I don't know how the dealers did this though so it could be ok, I would just be cautious.
Yes your probably right about sewing machine oil. I was going to suggest that but thought it might be too thin? I have used 3 in 1 for 50 years and can't determine any down side to it so far, but anything is possible.
A thought on the diaphragm. Since we all know that nothing plays as well as a good original, it might be that you could change the link out for one that is good on a junker diaphragm. Its really only a matter of undoing the little nut on the top and re coating it with something like bees wax melted over it to create the seal like they did using burnt shellack.
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Post by martinola on Jan 9, 2010 12:01:52 GMT -5
Hi rainey. Here's a link to a site that I found useful. www.angelfire.com/nc3/talkingmachines/diamonddiscrerpoducer.htmlUnfortunately, it isn't quite complete. Still, it lays things out pretty coherently. Some caveats are in order: The screw that holds the spring block in back is a real bear to get at. I'm sure the factory had it's own custom-made 90-degree screwdrivers. There is almost no clearance. I ended up getting a 90-degree slim screwdriver from ACE and had to grind off the phillips head on the opposite side as well as some of the screwdriver handle before I could get it to fit. The other issue to really watch out for is that the diamond is not too worn or chipped. Access to a microscope is very helpful here. In any case for small up close stuff like this, it's real useful to have a hands-free magnifier. I got an Optivisor on ebay and I think it's one of the best investments I've made. Honestly, a good repairman like George Vollema would be able to take what you have and check all those things. His prices are fair, and he knows what he's doing. (Although I rebuilt my own reproducer, I got the replacement stylus from George as well as some good advice.) As far as the grille, goes, I'd really try to save it. If you get yourself some very small clamps and liquid hide glue, you can really do wonders. Try it over the course of several days, a little at a time, treating it like a jigsaw puzzle. I had a Brunswick grille in similar shape which responded quite well to treatment like that. Look at it this way: you're not going to make it worse than it is. Regardless of what you choose to do, I think you have a very nice machine there. I've always liked the styling of the Adam. Best Wishes, Martin
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