Broken frame on Edison B

[wik]

A friend gave me an Edison cylinder player
I believe it to be a Home model B but am not positive
Anyhoo...
After starting to disassemble it a bit to clean it up I saw that the main frame holding the motor and gearing is broken in 2 pieces
Someone tried to "repair" it by bolting it together with some thin sheet metal panels. Still very "floppy".
I can't even imagine how something that rugged got broken when the rest of the player is in very nice shape...
I'm assuming getting a new frame is impossible or too expensive.
If I get all the mechanics off of it, it might be able to be welded back together... dunno
here's some pics
Any suggestions would be appreciated
Repair or part it out?

Thanks
Dennis

Attachments:

[gibsonj]

Dennis

Your machine was likely dropped at some point, and that would make me think that the case would have been severely damaged as well. Any evidence of that, or maybe someone swapped to a different case?

Since the motor frame is cast, it would require some special welding skills. Maybe could be done. You could try a product called J-B Weld, but not sure that would produce a strong enough bond to hold, given the pressures from cranking the spring up.

You might be looking at picking up a replacement frame off Ebay. Motor assemblies show up there often, and are not too expensive, particularly if they have not been cleaned up and don't "show" well (like appear really rusty and dirty). Since you would be looking only for a replacement frame, you might be able to buy a complete motor assembly like this for cheap, and get to where you need to be.

Good luck.

John

[wik]

Thanks John
The rest of the machine is in really good shape just a bit dirty and greasy.
Will try ebay.
George from Great Lakes Antique Phonograph in Michigan says he has replacement frames so I'll see what he wants for one after he sees a few more pictures.

Dennis

[nefaurora]

George is good for parts...Also Mark (Croakinfrog) on Ebay is good too. Either one have the parts you seek.

Tony K.

[wik]

Got the frame from George in the mail today!
Was very happy with the frame and the price!
Had it swapped out in about 20 minutes, not bad for never having seen one of these things before...
Now to do some cleaning and lubrication to see if I can get it to work.

Thanks for the help
Dennis

[wik]

Here's the broken frame
All of the spring-loaded bolts on the frame were bent.
All I can come up with is that it was dropped onto the winder shaft, breaking the frame and leaving the rest of the player intact...
I have the motor shipped to George to have him clean up the spring (s) and having him send some new bolts and leather for a new belt.
I'm now obsessed to hear this (#!@#$%*&) thing make some music...

Dennis

p.s. This is all I need, a new hobby... lol

Attachments:

[wik]

Final update:
Got the refurbished motor from George, got it put together, and it works great! Needed to adjust the belt tension but after that it plays great!
Plays much louder than I imagined with the good cylinders I have.
Can't recommend George's service/parts enough.
www.victroladoctor.com/

Dennis

On another note, the horn shows TCT which a friend of mine says is an after-market add-on that someone stuck on to improve sound.
(or to fix the player after dropping it and breaking the friggin frame...)
I saw somewhere where these were sold with this horn because Edison didn't have enough of their horns in stock?
Should this actually have just a brass cone/horn or would this have been sold with this horn?
Pretty sure my friend just wants to buy this from me to stick on one of his players but I want this to be correct...

Thanks
Dennis

Attachments:

[maroongem]

Dennis,

That is a beautiful example of a Tea Tray Co. horn! They were made in New Jersey and were used as an after market horn for Edison as well as others. Edison only offered the small brass and steel witches' hat horn until approx 1908 so it's not uncommon to find a horn like yours on and earlier Edison.
Your crane looks rather unusual and I'm wondering if it is pieces of different cranes or just not assembled properly. It is hard to tell from the single picture. Also, the crane is normally more central to the case rather than at the far end so the Reproducer could travel freely on the guide rod.

Bill

[martinola]

Hi Dennis.

I second what Bill is saying. Your horn is totally appropriate to your machine. Edison was really slow to market decent horns with their machines, so many dealers sold them packaged with a nice upgrade horns like yours. I'd keep it because it's pretty, adds interest to the machine and will sound way better than the basic 14" witches hat. Nice find!

-Martin

[wik]

Thanks for the replies.
Yes, I'm keeping the horn. My friend said it might not be the correct horn but that was because he wanted it for one of his machines...
The back side of the horn is in worse shape than the inside but I'll keep cleaning it.
The crane is a bit weird, haven't seen a picture of one like it yet.
Had to replace the top part as it was missing.
The side placement was due to the wear marks on the case showing where it was originally mounted. It is slewed over so that it places the horn in the middle of the cylinder. Almost neutral weight on the reproducer.
I studied the hardware for quite a while and can't imagine any other way it should be assembled, any suggestions are appreciated.
Overall I'm very happy with it!

Dennis

Attachments:

[shellophone]

The top segment of the crane (actually the section with the square portion that fits into the socket on the lower segment, is fitted into the lower segment upside-down. Flip it so that the finial is pointing downward.

Did you receive my personal message?

[wik]

Thanks, I'll try the crane the other way around.
Didn't notice the message until now, thanks, a lot of good info

Hey! I'm from Madison too!
Oh, Madison, Wisconsin... (Go Packers)

Thanks again
Dennis

[maroongem]

Dennis,

Better picture that gives a good perspective of the crane set-up. There is usually some sort of upper bracket that either clamps to the case at the top where the motorboard rests on the case or, like the later Edison machines that came supplied with a MG horn and crane, there was a slot cut on the top of the front edge of the case for a upper support bracket. This helps keep the crane rod steady.

[wik]

Yes, an upper bracket would greatly help stabilize the crane.
I don't see any evidence where one might have been previously attached but if I can find one that isn't too destructive to the case, I'll give it a try.

The whole thing is not very pretty to begin with (crane base plate)
It was bent in the original crash event and I had to straighten it in a vice. Also it's pretty "crunchy". (rusty/crusty)
Maybe I should just look for a different crane assembly, no hurry, just enjoying the machine as it is.

Dennis

[matty]

The crane appears to be the type shown on the third page of the 1908 Sears catalogue shown here. I think your horn might also be listed as well.

forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5462