oxidised reproducer

[gramophoneshane]

Can anyone tell me which models had the oxidised reproducers,and were they used for the entire run of d d machines or just on early/later models?

[Matt Brown]

I THINK that the oxidized repros were used on:

SOME A/B - 150's
SOME A?B - 250's

I don't have the Frow handy right now - does he make mention of this?

Matt

[steve]

There are three different oxidized DD reproducers, copper found on the A models these are rarely seen on the last style of reproducer that came out in 1915, bronze ones and the ones that came out in the mid 1920's that Edison called the Antique finish, you see regular, long play and Edisonics with these. The copper oxidized is like the finish found on the Idelia and opera. If you want photos, contact me with your e-mail. The bronze oxidized finish I have only seen this style with the Duncan stop. Frow is really not clear on the copper oxidized one, but Ron D said they came on the A models. All three have different patterns and the one from the 1920's is often called gun metal.

Frow does say the bronze oxidized reproducer was available on the B-150.

Steve

[gramophoneshane]

Thanks Steve,
Im not sure if mine is the bronze or the antique finish,(Im guessing bronze) so I thought I'd post a couple px..AS you can see, Ive gutted this one to repair the reproducer that came with my $40 london table model(you can tell by the price what condition that was in)






While Im on the subject, you might be able to tell me- I have 4 reproducers, but the one on my C19 has a limit loop,which half way down,angles in toward the weight. Does this mean the others are earlier or later reproducers, and why was it changed to or from the more common straight limit loop?

BTW: What is a duncan stop?

[steve]

Shane,

You can tell the age of the reproducer by the serial number.

Edison reproducers have letters before the serial numbers:
LG is long play
EM is one with Duncan stop
LD is the Dance
no letters & A to F Regular DD reproducer
Edison started out with just numbers and when he
got so high (999999) he started over with an A and
worked his way up.
NS before the serial number Edisonic
NS after the serial number Converted Edisonic
You could trade in a regular reproducer and $6.75 and save $12.75 on an
Edisonic, Edison then modified the head with a larger limit loop and installed the heavy weight and thicker diaphragm on it.

Each phonograph and reproducer had a serial number, when the model O came out it was two weeks wages.

947 copper oxidized is the earliest serial number I have seen, F80885 is the latest and it was converted to an Edisonic so the serial number is F80885 NS. I have seen two Dance reproducers that were converted to the New Standard they have serial numbers like LD 9476 NS and did not have the small spring or the cross bar it was connected to. Edison never wasted and continually improved things so he went to cork gaskets as the natural rubber began to harden after as little as six months around 1923. The Dance and Edisonic diaphragms are thicker than the regular ones, which is why the Bogantz diaphragm works so well in them. The small spring on the Edisonic and Dance that attaches to the stylus bar does make a difference in the sound.

To the best of my knowledge the copper oxidized reproducer was made like this:

The reproducer was copper plated (do not know if it was polished), then hot wax was used to make a pattern. The reproducer was then dipped in the oxidizing material and when the wax was removed you had the copper pattern. Edison clear coated it with shellac like he did the diamond A and model L.

There are at least three types of the oxidized type reproducers, the tiger striped one that is copper oxidized like the Idelia and Opera, I have seen two on the final style of DD reproducer so by 1915 they were made in much smaller quantities.

Edison standard DD reproducer types:

The first style of Edison reproducer was made in 1912 to 1913 and is similar to the diamond B weight; this is the only reproducer that is not interchangeable. Ron estimated that about 5000 were made. These were recalled as the first DD record was thinner, .22 of an inch, the later ones were .25.

The second style of reproducer was made from 1913 to 1915 and has the stylus bar shoulder assembly held on with four screws. If you look down the throat of this reproducer you will see a sleeve that, in my opinion, gives strength to the joint where the head is joined to the sound tube.

The third type is the most common and was made from 1915 to 1926 and I have only seen 2 copper oxidized in this style. The only change in these occurred in the A series when the when the dome of the cup was made thicker resulting in about a 2 oz. weight increase and the elimination of the inner sleeve. Ron said it may have been done to reduce vibration.

The second oxidized style:

This was only on the third style of reproducer, I have only seen it with the Duncan stop which works like this, via wiring a battery is connected to a stop, when the reproducer goes into the runoff area at the end the insulated limit loop pin’s bare area contacts the limit loop which completes the circuit and causes the electro magnet stop to work, all of these have three screws on the hinge block cover, a hole in the hinge block for the wire, and the letters EM before the serial number for electro magnet. The Duncan came out in 1917 so this helps to date this one. The insulation on the limit loop prevents the stop from working when you lift the reproducer, or it is up and in the rested position. I have seen the Duncan stop in gold; it was available from around April 1917 to March 1920 first on the art models, then on the higher end models like the C-250. The bent limit loop was made for the Duncan stop reproducer and you will find it on regular reproducers so Edison either made them all that way for a while or used up the extra, or inter-mixed them as they are found on regular reproducers.


If you look at the Frow book under the A-150 it says the B-150 was available in gold or oxidized bronze, not to be confused with oxidized copper.

The third oxidized style was called the antique finish by Edison and was available from around 1923 on as the Dance and Edisonic came with this finish as well as the regular and long play reproducer did. This style looks like the whole reproducer was blued, brass will blue. Then it appears the reproducer was polished as you can see the brass in a pattern that goes around the edge of the bottom of the weight, around the head of the reproducer and in lines around the sound tube.

As with any of my reproducer articles corrections or suggestions are most welcome and if anyone has any model O or N reproducers I am looking for serial numbers to complete my study on these.