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Post by keith1954 on Jan 6, 2013 19:05:04 GMT -5
How do I tell if the mainspring on my Edison Standard Model D needs to be replaced? It isn't broken or damaged that I can tell. After cleaning and lubricating the machine, it still won't play a 4 min. record. I did not disassemble the mainspring to clean and re-lubricate it. After just over a century, can a mainspring loose it's umph, so to speak?? Is there something else that ought to be done? The belt has been replaced and I think it's right. Would really appreciate thoughts on this.
Thanks,
Keith
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Post by martinola on Jan 7, 2013 23:53:58 GMT -5
Hi Keith, I've heard others tell that leaving a mainspring in a partially-wound condition will decrease its strength. I can imagine that it is especially true to phonos with smaller mainsprings (like the Gem). While that may end up being the problem in your case, every time I've had a sluggish Standard, I've always been able to clean, polish and relube the original mainspring to bring it back. I like keeping things as original as possible, so I always try to salvage the original part if possible - it's also a lot cheaper. I've noticed that power problems end up being combinations of things. These things generally clear-up when doing a complete disassemble, clean, and reassemble. Perhaps it's due to having to pay attention to all of the details of re-assembly and adjustment. Before tearing it all down, you might check for binding in the top works. Slip off the belt and disengage the half nut from the feedscrew. Then give the mandrel a good spin with your hand. It should be very free and coast for several turns. If it doesn't then it may be a matter of re-adjusting the mandrel shaft bearing at the extreme left of the machine or perhaps alignment of the top gears. Of course Murphy's law will dictate that the thing that you haven't done or don't want to do is the thing that you need to do. Let us know how it goes.  Regards, Martin PS: I'm assuming that the mandrel bushing is a modern roller bearing or brass replacement. If it's the original potmetal bushing then it could be tightening up on you and need replacement. |
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Post by andersun on Jan 8, 2013 9:37:04 GMT -5
Keith,
I highly doubt it's the mainspring. I have had many Standards (100 or so) of all types in my life and I have never had to replace a mainspring because it lost power. The only machine I ever had to replace a mainspring in was an Amberola 1A because the spring was broken.
If the spring thumps, it might need to be relubricated with graphite. There are many other variables to look at first before the mainspring like feed screw, belt, governor, mandrel...... Hope this helps........
Steve
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Post by bostonmike1 on Jan 8, 2013 21:21:34 GMT -5
Keith aslo check the vnor check weights make sure there tight. etc ifgovnor all thing emy phone # ill walk you through th do so message me for you need to call me pleass should be checked meaning oiled bearings either side go HUH?? |
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Post by lucius1958 on Jan 9, 2013 0:25:55 GMT -5
Keith aslo check the vnor check weights make sure there tight. etc ifgovnor all thing emy phone # ill walk you through th do so message me for you need to call me pleass should be checked meaning oiled bearings either side go HUH?? I think he means that you should check the governor weights, to make sure they're properly secured on the springs; and to lubricate the governor bearings.... I would also stress the importance of cleaning and regreasing the mainspring, as has been mentioned before; plus a general cleaning and lubricating of the motor and top works.... I hope this is helpful. -Bill |
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Post by lucius1958 on Jan 9, 2013 0:33:18 GMT -5
You might also check such things as the mandrel bearing; I don't know about Standards, but Homes and Triumphs of this period often have problems there. You might also check the half-nut, to see if it's bearing too hard on the feedscrew, or has excessive wear: these can also cause problems...
Bill
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Post by Edison Restorer 64 on Jan 9, 2013 9:43:17 GMT -5
Keith aslo check the vnor check weights make sure there tight. etc ifgovnor all thing emy phone # ill walk you through th do so message me for you need to call me pleass should be checked meaning oiled bearings either side go HUH?? Typo error on my part sorry |
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Post by Edison Restorer 64 on Jan 9, 2013 9:45:57 GMT -5
Typo error on my part sorry But Yes generally these things can become loosened and as the oil wears out they need to be roiled so the bearings that either end that the governor slips into/aka lubercated moves freely |
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Post by andersun on Jan 9, 2013 10:01:47 GMT -5
How do I tell if the mainspring on my Edison Standard Model D needs to be replaced? It isn't broken or damaged that I can tell. After cleaning and lubricating the machine, it still won't play a 4 min. record. I did not disassemble the mainspring to clean and re-lubricate it. After just over a century, can a mainspring loose it's umph, so to speak?? Is there something else that ought to be done? The belt has been replaced and I think it's right. Would really appreciate thoughts on this. Thanks, Keith If you have ruled out the easy stuff............. Make sure the governor pins are not bent and are clean. Remove governor ( after unwinding motor!) Hold governor pin strait up vertically with your fingers. Place governor in pin and spin. The governor should spin without wobbling. If it wobbles on it's axis, the pin is bent. Do this test to both pins on the ends of the governor. |
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Post by keith1954 on Jan 9, 2013 10:58:16 GMT -5
WOW! Thanks to everyone for giving me so much valuable information so quickly. Martin, the mandrel bearing is original, not a replacement. It never dawned on me to replace this. After giving it a second closer inspection a portion of the bearing is missing and it seems loose to me. Not a mechanic here, but seems to me the sloppy fit would cause friction and binding. Will try all the other suggestions as well.
And now for one more question.....any preferred vendor for an Edison bearing? Martin mentioned brass or ball bearing, are they both the same? Or does one perform better than the other?
Again, thanks for any and all assistance, really appreciate it!
Keith
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Post by maroongem on Jan 9, 2013 16:24:19 GMT -5
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Post by nefaurora on Feb 2, 2013 10:37:19 GMT -5
I have a Edison Standard Model D... With the spring fully wound, It plays for a full 6 1/2 minutes easy.. Take the cylinder off, and fully wind the player and play it with the cylinder off and see how long it will play for. Yours should run for at least that long. If it does, but it doesn't run that long when you have a cylinder and reproducer on, Your machine probably needs adjustment and some good oiling! If you have just put on a new belt, You may have to stretch the belt a bit.. I do this everytime that I throw on a new belt.
Tony K.
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Post by dflood815 on Feb 4, 2013 22:33:57 GMT -5
I recently bought a Standard Phongraph, Model B, and had to get parts that were missing. I now have everything, including a crank, but now that I have a crank to turn, I am noticing that something is not right. When I turn the crank, the mainspring starts to turn, I can see the gear turn a bit, but then it just releases, and all the tension goes out of it, and it starts again as I keep cranking. Basically it starts to turn but then its like it does not catch. Don't know if I am explaining it well enough, but I don't know if the mainspring is no good, or what. Any advice would be welcome, PLEASE!! I'd really love to get this thing working.
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Post by lucius1958 on Feb 4, 2013 23:43:45 GMT -5
I recently bought a Standard Phongraph, Model B, and had to get parts that were missing. I now have everything, including a crank, but now that I have a crank to turn, I am noticing that something is not right. When I turn the crank, the mainspring starts to turn, I can see the gear turn a bit, but then it just releases, and all the tension goes out of it, and it starts again as I keep cranking. Basically it starts to turn but then its like it does not catch. Don't know if I am explaining it well enough, but I don't know if the mainspring is no good, or what. Any advice would be welcome, PLEASE!! I'd really love to get this thing working. That means your mainspring is either unhooked at the outer end (best case scenario) or broken at the outer end (worst case scenario). Open up the barrel and find out which: if it's just unhooked, you can reattach it (after cleaning). If it's broken, you'll have to replace it: APSCO and other suppliers can do that for you. BillS |
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Post by dflood815 on Feb 20, 2013 16:28:03 GMT -5
Thanks - i did open up the mainspring casing, and although I did not remove it yet, it appears to be intact. It is hook onto the outer edge of the casing, but the arbor (the peg on the center shaft) does not seem to be catching on the inner spring hole (which appears to be intact as well, no breaks). Could the peg/arbor on the center shaft be too worn to catch? Is there anything I can do about that? Or do I just replace the spring - or the entire unit (casing and spring)? I feel like I should be able to figure this out, I can see all the components, just don't know why it won't engage the spring!
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