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Post by berntd on Jan 22, 2013 4:47:32 GMT -5
Hello all
I am trying to repair a badly mutilated Edison Model C reproducer.
I do not have the hinge block, stylus screw and weight pin / screw.
I don't own another reproducer or phonograph so I don't have a sample to go from.
Perhaps someone here can help with the diameters and thread types for these parts?
This and pictures (of course) would be a great help as I am planning to make replacements - just for fun.
Best regards
Bernt
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Post by maroongem on Jan 22, 2013 16:48:40 GMT -5
Hi Bernt, You didn't mention if the hinge block post is broken off in the Reproducer body. If so, you are going to have to drill it out if you can't pick out the post with a sharp tool. The original posts had an 0-100 pitch thread but if you have to drill it out, you will need a hinge block with and oversize thread. These have an 0-80 thread and you will need to tap the hole after you drill it. A 3/64 drill is best for the hole. APSCO offers both the oversize hinge block and the shoulder screw for the stylus bar. They may even have the screw to secure the weight to the hinge block. Bill www.antiquephono.com/edisect.htm |
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Post by berntd on Jan 23, 2013 4:19:52 GMT -5
Hello Bill and group Thanks so much for the reply! 0-100 is already really good starting point. I will try and find dimensions for that and assume it is 100tpi? We work metric here so I need to convert everything to be able to understand it :-) I like repairing stuff and machining things so I Will try an make all the bits for this myself on my Sherline lathe. If I fail, I can always throw money at it later to get parts or even just buy another reproducer. This here reproducer must have been repaired before by some sort of blacksmith. There are no threads left in any holes. They have all been drilled out! A small bras nail was used to secure the stylus arm. A brass brazing rod was knocked in where the pin/screw in the weight should be and a piece of wire was threaded through the hinge block and reproducer body with some sort of solder on it, to hold it in place. There is no stud on the hinge block and it has been drilled out completely. I will have to make a new one. Added: Bill, I can't find any reference on google to a 0-100 screw size. Can you please help me with some drill size or diameter? Or was this a metric M1.2x0.25mm thread? Best regards Bernt Attachments:
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Post by berntd on Jan 23, 2013 4:21:33 GMT -5
Another pic as I can't figure out how to post multiple ones - sorry Bernt Attachments:
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Post by berntd on Jan 23, 2013 4:22:08 GMT -5
Another pic as I can't figure out how to post multiple ones - sorry Bernt Attachments:
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Post by lucius1958 on Jan 24, 2013 1:33:49 GMT -5
As for the hinge block, Eric Reiss writes:
"The original thread was a Waltham watch thread; but it is unlikely that anyone has the tools to cut these nowadays. An 0x80 tap is about the closest modern equivalent."
Bill
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Post by maroongem on Jan 24, 2013 16:42:28 GMT -5
Bernt,
The 0-100 thread is pretty much defunct in modern machining. I couldn't even find it listed on the tap chart in my Machinery's Handbook.
The smallest tap we use in the shop is a 2-56.
Where the hole was already drilled out, chances are you wouldn't be able to use an original hinge block. The hole should be no larger than .060 (1.52mm) for the 0-80 tap to cut a decent thread. The optimum size would be around .047 (1.19mm).
I hope this helps you out somewhat. Oh, Sherline lathes rock!!!
BillF
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Post by lucius1958 on Jan 25, 2013 0:13:50 GMT -5
Bernt, The 0-100 thread is pretty much defunct in modern machining. I couldn't even find it listed on the tap chart in my Machinery's Handbook. The smallest tap we use in the shop is a 2-56. Where the hole was already drilled out, chances are you wouldn't be able to use an original hinge block. The hole should be no larger than .060 (1.52mm) for the 0-80 tap to cut a decent thread. The optimum size would be around .047 (1.19mm). I hope this helps you out somewhat. Oh, Sherline lathes rock!!! BillF If the hole has been drilled out any larger than that, you would have to press or solder in a piece of brass bushing, and thread that. Are you sure you don't want to buy a good reproducer instead? BillS |
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Post by berntd on Jan 25, 2013 4:56:23 GMT -5
Hello BillF and BillS  Thank you so much for the help! I have not decided yet if I really must buy another reproducer. I still think that this one can be saved. I hate discarding stuff and I like repairing stuff. Then again, I have failed before so I am not saying i can definetly do it. I can say for sure that the holes in the reproducer are already somewhat larger than what you mentioned. 0-80 needs a 1.18mm drill but the hole in the reproducer housing is currently at least 1.6mm (.063"). Even then, shoever drilled it out, missed some of it as there is still part of the old stud visible in the hole. Unless I give up, I will have to find or make a tap and die and make a stud to fit there - or I need to somehow make a very thin walled insert and thead it. Then there are the other holes as well.... Dang, whoever let a blacksmith loose on a phonograph.  Best regards Bernt |
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Post by maroongem on Jan 25, 2013 17:36:56 GMT -5
Bernt,
I like your attitude! It is very rewarding when you can take something like this that has been "tinkered" with and restore it back
to correct working condition. At .063, you will still have enough meat on the sides to get a decent thread depth. There isn't a lot of stress on that point that would require a heavy thread depth, as the weight isn't likely to pull the block out of the body.
I also repair antique watches and clocks and I have seen over the years some very "ingenious" home repairs done to clocks to keep them going. Some are quite clever and others, well, not so much.
BillF
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Post by berntd on Jan 26, 2013 5:11:58 GMT -5
Bernt, I like your attitude! It is very rewarding when you can take something like this that has been "tinkered" with and restore it back to correct working condition. At .063, you will still have enough meat on the sides to get a decent thread depth. There isn't a lot of stress on that point that would require a heavy thread depth, as the weight isn't likely to pull the block out of the body. I also repair antique watches and clocks and I have seen over the years some very "ingenious" home repairs done to clocks to keep them going. Some are quite clever and others, well, not so much. BillF Hi BillF Thanks for the kind words! I really like craftsmanship and working to improve my skills. It is a constant learning curve  Hey, I also repair clocks and some watches amongst other things. After many attempts, I have recently suceeded in making a working balance staff for a pocket watch! I must say that this forum here has been very helpful than some others that I belong to. It seems that most people nowadays are what I woudl call checkbook restorers. "If it needs work, buy another one..." Bill, I just got a Sessions movement in for repairs. It has already been overhauled! You won't believe this but the escapewheel front plate hole was drilled out to take a bush but the restorer forgot to install the bush! Other bushes in there are made of copper!  Ingeniuous?  Best regards Bernt |
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Post by maroongem on Jan 27, 2013 17:03:29 GMT -5
You won't believe this but the escapewheel front plate hole was drilled out to take a bush but the restorer forgot to install the bush! Other bushes in there are made of copper! Ingeniuous? Best regards Bernt Amazing! How could he have given it back to the customer? It obviously wasn't working w/o the hole being bushed. I use bronze bushings for the clocks I repair. Have you ever run across prick punching? It's a real crappy way to close up the worn bearing hole and doesn't last very long. Bill |
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Post by berntd on Jan 27, 2013 18:12:22 GMT -5
Hi Bill Ok, i don't want to go off topic too much here as we are in the phono forum  Yes, I regularly see those punch marks on older repairs. It was (is?) a recognised method to close worn holes in plates. I never have and never will use that method. Back on topic: Reproducer thread repair. I have a whole small box full of all sorts old watchmaker taps and thread plates. I was always very precious about them. I have never used any of them. After spending an hour sifting through them, I concluded yesterday that they probably aren't any good since I can't seem to match the thread plates to any of the taps and none of them have any useful markings either. Very frustrating. All those tools and still not the right ones Regards Bernt |
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Post by berntd on Jan 27, 2013 23:54:41 GMT -5
Hello again I was just at the bench, looking at this reproducer and the required threads again. I noticed that the stylus pillar with the larger hole has a thread in it. In fact, it is prety close to M1.2x0.25mm. I am suprised about this as I expected the thread to be in the pillar with the small hole instead. Worse is that the stylus arm's hole is smaller than the smaller pillar hole. I am now not sure what the screw should even look like. Does it have a head-thread-pin arrangement with a very loose fit in the smaller pillar ? or is a like a grubscrew with no head, just thread and pin? Maybe someone has a picture of this screw or maybe even the diameter of the pin part? Regards Bernt |
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Post by lucius1958 on Jan 28, 2013 0:30:15 GMT -5
The screw should definitely be "head/thread/pin", as you describe it.
As for the fit: I examined my Model K, and the original screw on the 4 minute stylus seems to fit rather loosely in the pin hole. The 2 minute screw seems to have a larger pin - but that's a recent replacement.
BillS
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