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Post by maroongem on Feb 10, 2013 11:12:11 GMT -5
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Post by martinola on Feb 10, 2013 14:16:23 GMT -5
Guys - your observations on seeing these types of cranks on other models underline the need to document them as well. I know I've seen a few on Home machines. The fun of Edison watching is always being surprised by the variations. BTW - I'll need your email addresses for the excel sheets as I can't attach files on this forum's PMs. Regards, Martin
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Post by dedune on Feb 11, 2013 8:35:55 GMT -5
Well, I am almost done with my work on the cabinet finish. What I did was clean the surface. This did not remove all the gunk though, it appeared to have embeded into the shellac. I used a cloth and denatured alchohol to strip the top layer of shellac with all the dirt away. Then used a brush to amalgamate the remaining shellac and smooth out all the bumps and scrathes. Then applied a thin layer a new shellac to replace what I had taken off and buffed lightly with 0000 steel wool to reduce the glaring shine a bit. I am well pleased with the results, and will post a pic when I have it back together. I guess this means I can't claim it as original finish though. As collectors, how would you classify what I have done? Partially restored/original finish? I don't plan on selling this anytime soon, as it will make a nice addition to my decor. If I ever do have to sell it, I want to know how to represent it. I guess what I have done has detracted from the value collector wise, but dang the logo pops now and the wood grain can show thru.
Next on my to do list is to clean up the surface of the bedplate. There is one small speck missing in the black paint finish. Would it be better to touch it up, or just protect it from rust with something like wax? Ooo, maybe a black wax as a touch up that can be easily removed?
The case is missing one rubber foot, and the other 3 are worn down to the nail heads. Am I hurting the value more if I replace the feet with new reproduction ones?
This phonograph rolled out the factory in 1907 as a 2 minute machine. Then sometime after the introduction of the Blue Amberols in 1912, it got converted to 2/4 gearing and had the carriage changed to accomodate a Diamond B for better sound. So if this had been you doing it, what do you do about the horn? Would you be satisfied with a 10 panel straight horn it likely came from the factory with and just get an elbow? Would that have been enough sound quality, or would you have invested a little more for something else like a cygnet or morning glory? I know it is impossible to tell, but I am trying to get into the mindset of whoever had this to decide what kind of horn to shop for.
I found one clamp style crane that might account for the deep scrathes in the wood on the right side. There are not any matching scratches on the inside of the case, but if all the weight was pressing on the outside edge of the clamp then that could account for it.
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Post by phonogfp on Feb 11, 2013 8:47:33 GMT -5
Since your machine left the factory in March 1907, it was originally supplied with a 14 inch black & brass horn. You don't want to use one of those. Since there are no holes in the rear panel for a cygnet bracket, it's obvious the original owner didn't use one of those either. That leaves any one of many aftermarket flower horns, or the Edison version if you like. I'd install a Hawthorne & Sheble No.5 crane (no screws necessary - it clamps on with thumb screws) and an attractive flower horn.
By the way, cranes didn't clamp onto the cabinet on the right side; that would interfere with the crank. I know of only one style that clamped to the left side. A number of Tea Tray Company cranes clamped to the cabinet's front and rear base molding, with a steel member running beneath the cabinet. The H&S crane I alluded to clamps to the front of the cabinet, where the vast majority of cranes were designed to be used.
George P.
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Post by dedune on Feb 11, 2013 9:13:55 GMT -5
When you say flower horn, you mean like a 31" Morning Glory horn?
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Post by phonogfp on Feb 11, 2013 9:56:33 GMT -5
Yes. Some companies advertised their horns of that design as "Morning Glory" horns, but most advertised them as "Flower" horns. Same thing.
George P.
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Post by maroongem on Feb 11, 2013 16:12:38 GMT -5
As I mentioned earlier, the non-pumice Go-Jo does a very nice job on the bedplate, especially removing all the old grease that has built up over time under the feedscrew and gear train plus puts a nice shine on the surface. I wouldn't worry too much about the small chip. You can try and fill it with black enamel but it will take several coats to be even with the original surface.
The original rubber feet have petrified by this time so you will have to replace them with newly made ones. I have some if you are interested.
The horn is a matter of personal choice. Where you already have a partial set-up for a Cygnet horn, that is what I would personally choose. The sound is better and it takes up less room as the Cygnet goes upward rather than outward. An original can be expensive but the repros are every bit as nice and you plan on enjoying it so it is up to you.
BillF
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Post by maroongem on Feb 12, 2013 17:20:47 GMT -5
Guys - your observations on seeing these types of cranks on other models underline the need to document them as well. I know I've seen a few on Home machines. The fun of Edison watching is always being surprised by the variations. BTW - I'll need your email addresses for the excel sheets as I can't attach files on this forum's PMs. Regards, Martin Martin, That's a good idea. I received one reply regarding flat vs cast. This machine is a Mod. A but was later converted to a Cygnet horn set-up. Here are the crank photos. If you are going to make a spread sheet, I'll ask for the serial number. BillF
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Post by martinola on Feb 13, 2013 16:49:32 GMT -5
;D Don't tempt me, Bill! ;D (I already caught myself looking at Firesides on ebay today.)
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Post by martinola on Feb 14, 2013 14:00:38 GMT -5
Hi again, Bill. (sighs) Ok. The die is cast. (so is the crank) I am now also noting down info on Firesides.
If anybody has info they'd like to share, please let me know. I'm looking for: presence of cast (or flat) crank, presence of "4 minute 2" decal on bedplate (or not), serial number, model type (and location of model type on plate), reproducer (if any), carrier arm type - horizontal or angled (small or large-eyed), presence (or evidence) of cygnet crane bracket. Anything else like dealer tags, paper labels, etc, any other stories, country, city, state, and name of collection/collector or online handle. I can be reached by PM here or via email: mkauper (at) verizon (dot) net. Thanks!
Martin (collecting info on Standards, Homes and now Firesides)
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Post by maroongem on Feb 16, 2013 9:31:45 GMT -5
LOL.........I'll get the info on the above machine I posted and also, our President of MOCAPS owns one and is going to send me photos of his machine. In for a penny, in for a pound............
BillF
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Post by nefaurora on Feb 17, 2013 9:27:56 GMT -5
I have a really nice original Home Model B with an original Cast crank and the wood is definitely Brown on the handle, No trace of Black anywhere. I have always wondered about these cast cranks.. Can anyone else shed some light on these Cast cranks?
Tony K.
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Post by dedune on Feb 20, 2013 17:59:10 GMT -5
Well, here is an update on my progress with my Standard B. Got the cabinet done, looks loads better than it did. Gears are all cleaned and the mechanism plays very well. Governor seems a bit noisy to me, but that might just be beyond any cleaning/oiling I can do. I have no basis to compare how noisy it SHOULD be. Reproducer tends to try an lever out of the carriage adapter when I use the 45 elbow. Hopefully the Diamond B will be more secure when it arrives. I cleaned what I had originally thought was a weld spot on the spring case, but it turned out to be a hole full of grease. Should the spring case have an open hole, or am I missing some kind of cover??? I have all the cabinet parts I need, except the new hinges don't QUITE fit with the existing screw holes. Was there more than one hinge Edison's factory was using for the Standards, or were they just hand made with a wide range of tolerances? Attaching a pic of the two hinges(kind of neat how someone repaired one of my new hinges with a nail, seems to work just fine). Guess I will have to send the pic to have my supplier try and find a size match for the hinge. Attachments:
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Post by dedune on Mar 3, 2013 16:39:54 GMT -5
Well, I have finished polishing and adjusting my phonograph. Mainspring will spin for 12.5 minutes before winding down, without the carriage arm engaged. I can play my 3 minute Amberol record almost 3 times before slowing down. Lets see if this Youtube link will work. youtu.be/Sz7iTzAvKO0
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Post by maroongem on Mar 3, 2013 17:37:15 GMT -5
The link worked fine and the recording sounded fantastic! Put a cygnet horn set-up on that baby with the Diamond B and you will be blown away! One of my fav. B Murray WWI tunes.
BillF
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