How can one determine the originality of a horn?

[numberseven]

I know that it is practically taken as given that almost any horn, especially the "witch's hat" horn, is generally aftermarket and not original. Of course, if the horn is a larger morning glory type, it generally is easier.

I have a Edison HOME phonograph, the Model A new style, and it has an old straight black and brass horn, which I believe also is called the "witch's hat" horn. Now I expect it is aftermarket, but it does look old. Way old. So the question is, how can one tell definitively that that horn is a repro or original? Was there a decal on them?

[phonogfp]

You're confusing the terms "aftermarket" and "original." Until October 1907, Edison did not supply large flower (morning glory) horns with its Phonographs. The Edison flower horns are predominantly black and have decals identifying them. Most of the colorful flower horns that were sold from 1905 onward were manufactured by aftermarket companies, but they're still the same age as the Phonographs. As a matter of fact, Edison didn't manufacture its own flower horns - - they were manufactured by two aftermarket companies for Edison. The smaller 14" black & brass horns (included with nearly all Edison Phonographs prior to 1907) were also supplied to Edison by at least two aftermarket companies. So the terms "original" and "aftermarket" are virtually interchangeable in the context of Edison Phonograph horns.

The black and brass horns (often called "witches hat" by modern collectors) have been reproduced in various sizes, but are usually easy to tell. In reproduction horns, the brass often contains concentric lines that the old ones don't have. Reproduction 14" horns don't have a beaded seam between the bell and body - at least as far as I know. A beaded seam is a good indication that the horn is old. New horns seem to rely exclusively on flat seams, but be aware that flat seams were commonly done in old horns too. Patent information stamped into the metal body is a sure-fire indication of an old horn, but be aware that many or most old horns have no stamped information in them. Finally, look at the horn's outline from the black body to the brass bell. It should flow along the same line, but many reproduction horns have brass bells that are smaller or larger than the large end of the black body, so the effect is "stepped" when looked at from the side.

If the brass and the paint look old, chances are it's an old horn. Experience will soon show you the differences.

Good luck!

George P.

[refseries]

To add to George's good advice above I have always understood that Edison 14 inch 'Witch's Hat' horns have the text "PAT. APL'D FOR" on the conical tin section near the brass bell. I have not found such marks on other types of Edison horn.

Keith

[phonogfp]

Some 14" black & brass horns have the "Pat. App. For" stamping, but others don't. I have a couple of original 14" black & brass horns that have no stamping.

George P.