Model 30 Amberola - 4 minute record skipping

[jimm]

Hello -

I've had this record player for over 40 years and it's played reliably all that time providing much entertainment for the family.  However, recently, it's been skipping.  I know it's a 4 minute record player and the records I have are 4 minute records (and all of them are suddenly skipping).  I thought the problem might be dust accumulation on the pawl that rests on the threaded rod that pulls the needle across the record and I cleaned both the pawl and the threaded rod but that didn't help.  What I have noticed is that if I apply pressure against the run of the threaded rod (applying pressure in the opposite direction of travel of the needle on the bracket that rides on the straight rod in front of the cylinder) the record plays flawlessly again.  I can't figure this one out.  Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I've never taken the mechanism out of the cabinet so it's never been properly cleaned or lubricated.  I've figured out how to remove the two nuts and bolts on the right side of the machine and how to remove the crank handle, but it's still attached on the left side.  I don't know how to release it on the left so that I can lift the mechanism out.

Again, any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Jim

[phonogfp]

Hi Jim,

To remove the mechanism from the cabinet, You'll first need to remove the cast iron cover that's screwed to the top of the mechanism on the left side. (There are two little screws.) Once this cover is removed, you'll see the remaining mounting screw that's preventing removal of your mechanism.

Now to your playing problem...

First, allow me to do some brief translation:
"Pawl" = half-nut
"Threaded rod" = feed screw
"Bracket that rides on the straight rod" = carriage

The feed screw and half-nut can really get clogged with gunk - especially if they've been oiled with a paraffin-based lubricant like "3-In-One" oil. Clean the feed screw and half-nut by applying penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench or PB Blaster. Let it sit for 30 minutes or so, then wind up the machine and let it run while you GENTLY hold the corner of a razor blade in the groove of the feed screw. Just use the weight of your finger, and allow the feed screw to propel the blade all the way across it. You should see furrows of gunk dug out of the feed screw. You can't really do the same with the half-nut, but a firm rubbing with a rag/paper towel beneath your thumb should do the trick.

Lubricate all points of friction (including the feed screw and half-nut) with a good oil (I like Tri-Flow, but any good sewing machine oil will do). Don't forget to put a bit on the carriage rod and the lug (called the "straight edge") behind the cylinder so the carriage will glide smoothly.

If you've been playing this machine for 40 years without cleaning or lubrication, I'm sure you'll see an improvement!

Good luck - -

George P.

[jimm]

George P.,

Thank you for your quick response. Tomorrow I'll get started after I get some penetrating oil as I don't have any on hand.

Also, thank you for the nomenclature update 8^). It always helps when you call things what their name really is but I had no way of knowing the correct nomenclature for the parts. I appreciate your patience with this and the time you took to give me the mini-class.

One more quick question, however, before I get started.

Once I remove the mechanism from the cabinet, will I be able to get to the half-nut? As it is, it's resting about 1/8 inch above the feed screw in the manual moving position. You suggested firmly rubbing with a rag/paper towel. I don't think there's sufficient room there to get under it. And I don't want to do anything to damage or bend the spring that holds it in place. Also, I have high grade clock oil (we love wind-up clocks and have two dozen of them around the house). Will that be a good oil or should I definitely go with the Tri-Flow or a sewing machine oil?

Again, thank you so much for your help! I'll post to this thread again to let you know how things went.

Jimm

[phonogfp]

Jim,

Good quality clock oil should be fine.

When the time comes to clean the half-nut (and the feed screw as well), you can make the job much easier by removing the mandrel (the part the cylinder record slides on). Before you do this, it's VERY IMPORTANT for the motor to run ALL THE WAY DOWN. When the mandrel stops turning, just give it a couple more spins for good measure. Once you're SURE the motor has run all the way down, remove the little collar at the right end of the mandrel. Now the mandrel will slide off its shaft - and it will probably pull the 2 gears to the left of it along too. If your motor has run all the way down, this will be no problem. If, however, you've ignored my subtle advice and there's still tension on the mainspring, when those two gears pull out of the train there will be much noise, fear, and knashing of teeth in your home.

Now that the mandrel is off, you can remove the reproducer (the part that holds the stylus) by loosening the thumbscrew. Now the carriage can be tipped forward, bringing the half-nut up into an easier position for cleaning. I'd go all the way and loosen the set screw on the left that secures the carriage rod, and slide that rod right out so you can simply hold the carriage in your hands. Being a clock guy, this should all be a walk in the park for you.

Good luck!

Did I mention to let the motor run all the way down before beginning?

George P.

[lucius1958]

I might also suggest checking the reproducer as well. The pivot in front can also get stiff with age and cause repeating…

BillS

[phonogfp]

Sept 5, 2013 21:19:39 GMT -5 lucius1958 said:

I might also suggest checking the reproducer as well. The pivot in front can also get stiff with age and cause repeating…

BillS

An excellent point!

George P.

[nefaurora]

"I might also suggest checking the reproducer as well. The pivot in front can also get stiff with age and cause repeating…

BillS"


Bill is right. The front area where the reproducer connects with the horn should be able to turn freely when the phonograph is in motion. If its stiff, It will skip. My Amberola 75 had this issue before I thoroughly lubricated it...then the problem was resolved.

Tony K.
Melbourne, FL

[jimm]

Ooookay....

Thank you all for the help. Now, the only thing I can think of that I need help with is what everything is officially named. While I can guess what the "reproducer" is, I'm not 100% sure. Is there someplace on the web or here in the message boards that has illustrations of what things are and what they are called? I freely admit I'm not the sharpest tack in the box and the Edison is too valuable to me to mess it up by removing the wrong thing. If there's a place where I can verify that what I think you're talking about is actually the part I need to work with, I'll be a lot more comfortable. Like I said, I've never had this thing apart.

Jimm

[phonogfp]

Offhand, I can't think of a location on the web with a "schematic" of an Amberola 30. But the reproducer is the part with the needle (called a stylus on an Edison). Yours is probably painted black, although in first year of production (1915) the reproducers were nickel-plated. The reproducer rides in the carriage, sliding back and forth over the cylinder record. It's the highest part of your mechanism.

To remove the reproducer, loosen the thumbscrew, gently lift the reproducer - the neck of the horn will lift up with it - then slide the reproducer forward off the horn. To reinstall, simply reverse the operation.

Just to clarify things, the reproducer connects with the horn at the REAR, while the part of the reproducer that often needs a drop of oil is at the FRONT. There's a weight on the reproducer that hangs down below it, and this holds the stylus. The weight is attached and pivots at the front of the reproducer. A drop of your clock oil at that pivot point (it's similar to a door hinge) and a little back-and-forth movement should keep the weight moving freely...which may or may not be a problem for you at the moment.

George P.

[jimm]

Well! That suggestion to lubricate the reproducer did the trick! Only the reproducer on my machine isn't hinged... there is a piece of flat spring steel where (I'm guessing) other reproducers are hinged. What needed oil was the stylus where the diamond chip is located. I oiled the pin that the stylus pivots on where it's connected to the (I'm guessing) diaphragm which amplifies the vibrations. She's playing without missing a beat now.

Thank you all for your assistance! Now I've decided to attempt to clean it up to "as new" condition as I can without ruining the original finishes. I've seen some pictures where there is some type of cloth on the grate in front of the horn (there is none on mine and it doesn't look like there had ever been anything glued to the back). Can anyone tell me if there was cloth in front (I think there probably may have been to prevent the entry of dust) and if so, where I can obtain new cloth?

Again, thanks to all!

Oh, and this cleared up another question I had... Since my reproducer is nickel-plated, it gives me a good idea as to when it was manufactured. Again, thanks!

Jimm

[phonogfp]

Jimm,

I'm glad that oiling the stylus bar cured your immediate problem. You still might want to put a drop of oil at the front of your reproducer where it's hinged. (The flat spring steel is attached to a hinge block. That hinge block pivots slightly to allow lateral movement of the weight and thus the stylus. When I wrote that it's similar to a door hinge, I should have written that it's similar in operation - - the weight pivots laterally like your front door.)

As for grille cloth, Google "Amberola 30" and you'll see a result with "Images." Click on that and you'll see several color photos of the original orange colored grille cloth. It's a silky material, and you should be able to match it at a fabric shop like Joanne's.

The earliest Amberola 30s have a gold pinstripe abound the bedplate, and a little gold decoration on the cast iron cover that you remove to take out the left-hand mounting bolt. The speed control knob also protrudes through that cover. The first thing to go was the gold decorations. Then the speed control knob was moved below the bedplate. Finally, the reproducers were painted black.

Best of luck with the cleaning and lubrication!

George P.