Standard & gold moulded

[rocky]

Are standard records the same as gold-moulded records?


Rocky

[maroongem]

The "Gold Moulded" came out in 1902, and were an improvement over his earlier black & brown wax cylinders. They were harder and more durable, and now the end was domed rather than flat, and the content, record # and later the artist could be found here. The earlier brown & black flat tops were accompanied by a record slip with the record's info. Also the gould moulded were just that, a pressed cylinder w/ contents, rather than the earlier type that had to be recorded one at a time! IE, the artist or band would sing/play into a recording horn that was attached to several recording machines via rubber tubes. This would have to be repeated several times during the day. Often, you will find differences if you happen to have the same song by the same artist, but it was done at a diffrent session. Edison's first records were just labled "Edison Records" on the box and the records would come wrapped in a cotton batting and the record slip was put along the side and then a semi-transparent paper was wrapped over this "cocoon". Some early boxes had a hollow stiff paper tube in the center which kept the fragile cylinder from bouncing around. The later Gold Moulded boxes had a soft cotton lining inside. This is the reason you find so many that have been ravaged by mold. The cotton would absorb any moisture and of course transfer it to the record surface. I have yet to find any moldy cylinders in the boxes that have that stiff paper tube in the center. It's too bad Edison didn't continue to use this format rather than the later cotton lined one. The Edison 4 Min black wax cylinder boxes were also lined with that flannel-like material, but the composition of the cylinder was different and I've rarely found them with mold. }They are however EXTREMELY fragile and can shatter just from the heat of your fingers slipped inside or being slid onto a "cold" mandrel!)
Edison used the word "Standard" to denote a particular model of cylinder machine(one of his most popular) and also the DD reproducer was called the "Standard Reproducer." I have never heard of his cylinders being called 'standard."

Bill

[gramophoneshane]

yeh Rocky,they are the same.After the amberolas were introduced,they started listing the 2 mins in catalogs as standards.Some of the late boxes also have edison standard record on the label in place of the usual gold moulded record.these have a red lid like you find on the 4 min wax record boxes

[rocky]

Thanks, Gramophoneshane! Obviously, a case of advances in technology causing the old technology to be renamed.

[maroongem]

I'm assuming that these were UK releases. Our boxes(US) for the 4m wax Amberol were green as were the lids.
Also, I've never seen a US release 2m box with a red lid nor the words "Standard" replacing "Gold Moulded." I assume this was also a UK release?

[gramophoneshane]

Just thought id give you a look at the "standard" 2min wax box.

May 3 .1908 is the last patent date,so they are pretty late.

[rocky]

I have noted that the Edison 2-minute records listed at the University of California cylinder site are called "Standard" records beginning with the 1908 releases.

[kevan]

Bill

The 4 Min black wax is a Edison Amberol Record right?

I think I got one once in a bunch of blue amberols, as I picked it up heard a little cracking noise, so I looked at it and I did not see a crack, so I applied a little more pressure from my fingers and it blew up all over the porch.

kevan

[maroongem]

Hi Kevan,

Yep. That was a wax Amberol! Welcome to the joys of handling one of those cantankerous little critters. The crackling noise was probably the heat of your hands meeting the different temperature of the cylinder causing tiny stress cracks. I've had the displeasure of that action more times than I can count over the years. I mentioned in a previous post that I've also found them shattered in their boxes just from temp changes during the year. Too bad too, because if they aren't worn (another bad feature) they sound fantastic and not all of them were later re-released as BAs so there is some good material out there on them. I don't know what else to tell you about them. I just know from experience that they don't like New England!!!

Bill

[kevan]

Bill
How are the wax and gold moulded 2min ones like for durability. I know about the mold on them but if you find some good ones, is there much back ground nosie
Do they brake if you put them on the mandrel to hard and will I be able to play any 2 min with a model c reproducer on my standard B?

kevan

[maroongem]

kevan said:

Bill
How are the wax and gold moulded 2min ones like for durability. I know about the mold on them but if you find some good ones, is there much back ground nosie
Do they brake if you put them on the mandrel to hard and will I be able to play any 2 min with a model c reproducer on my standard B?

kevan

Hi Kevan,

The gold moulded cylinders are more durable than the latter material Edison used for his last 2M cylinders and the 4M Amberols. Try and make sure the mandrel is the same temperature as the cylinder when putting it on the mandrel, and you don't need to push it too far onto the mandrel, just enough so the cylinder doesn't "walk" off when playing. It's a matter of feel and you'll get it down ok. With the C, you'll be able to play all 2M cylinders, including the celluloid Indestructibles. I would not suggest playing brown wax cylinders too much with a C though if you have any. The wax was softer than the later GMS and the C with it's heavier weight will eventually ruin the cylinder.

Bill

[mikec]

Most likely everyone here can identify a 2 or 4 minute cylinder instantly. Unfortunately, I am not one of them unless they are marked.
Is ther identifying features to the cylinders other than the container, as I am sure many are in the wrong containers when found.

Appreciate any help in describing a 2 min and 4 minute piece.
Thanks

[lukewarmwater]

There are many more varieties of cylinders than I am about to describe, but this should cover just about all that you'll typically encounter.

Medium to dark brown wax (2-minute) -- produced by both Columbia and Edison. These are pantographed cylinders (duplicated from a master with a mechanical recording linkage). Both have slightly rounded, blunt title ends. Title/manufacturer information is not on the end, but rather around the circumference of the run-out area. These were produced from the late 1890's to 1902.

Black "wax" Edison "Gold Moulded" records (2-min.) - Title/manufacturer info on beveled rim. Although referred to as "wax", these are actually a metallic soap compound (zinc stearate) that had a predictable shrinkage rate so they would drop from the molds when the molds were chilled in the casting process. Prone to breakage and a fungus in high humidity conditions. Produced from 1902-1911 (approx.)

Black "wax" Columbia records (2-min). Same chemistry as above, but retain blunt ends.

Edison (black) Amberol records (4-min) -- flat ends. Black "wax" but even more brittle than Gold Moulded composition. 1909-1912.

Edison Blue Amberol (4-min) -- medium to dark blue celluloid with plaster core. Early examples have flat rim, later have beveled. Produced from 1912 - 1929. "Royal Purple" variety of classical also.

U-S Everlasting (Cleveland, O.) -- (2 & 4-min. 4-min marked '4-m' on rim). Heavy black paper asphaltum core.

Everlasting-Indestructible (Albany, NY) -- (2 & 4) Metal ring inside. Sometimes pale blue.

Can anyone add more details for field ID? Luke W.

[mikec]

Luke,
Thank you very much...........
I have 3 cylinders. If I understand you correctly ( and please correct me if I am wrong)....all are 2 minute?? Or could the 1st one be a 4 min?

1. black #2267 on a beveled edge edison ( seems to have a plaster interior- in a "Edison Record" container with felt unmarked top cover Cyl pat date 31(??)
2. Black # 960 on a flat rim ( no maker name) seems to have a pressed cardboard interior...No Container Cyl pat date 02
3. Black # 885 no maker name and pressed cardboard interior-in an "Edison Gold Moulded" container with felt (no top) Cyl pat date 02

So for the most part, Blue would be all 4 min.......and black are 2 min........Except, the Black Amberols ( flat ends ) with a later pat date
Thanks again.........I am going to an auction Sat and just incase I see some I would like to easily ID them

[lukewarmwater]

#1 sounds like a 4-minute Blue Amberol. #2 & #3 sound like Cleveland Indestructibles.