telling difference between 2&4 minute cylinders

[nick13557]

Hi all, we have just bought an Edison 'fireside' phonograph with the model K reproducer. it works very well and we have some cylinders to play. But for the life of me, i cannot find anywhere that tells me how to tell the difference between a 2 minute and a 4 minute cylinder, as there seems to be no markings on the boxes. i know that the 4 minute ones have tighter packed grooves and about blue amberols etc, but am so confused when it comes to just picking up a cylinder and knowing which type it is.
I would really appreciate any help on how i can spot the difference without having to worry and guess.
Thanks for any help

[matty]

Hi Nick,

The basic rule is that every 4 minute cylinder *Except* Edison Blue Amberols will have "4M" before the record number on the edge of the cylinder. So if the record number is 1234 it's a 2 min record, but if the number is 4M-1234 then it's a 4 minute record.
Like I said, this is not so with only the Edison Blue Amberol's, but in fact the opposite is true.
A Blue Amberol marked 1234 is a 4 minute record, but a 2 minute version was available & these will read 2M-1234.
If the edge of the record is blank ie: not record number or title etc, then it's a safe bet this is a 2 minute recording, unless it's a 4 minute recording done at home with a 4 minute recorder.

2 minute cylinder



4 minute cylinder



2 minute Edison blue amberol



4 minute Edison blue amberol



2 minute blunt end (no record number etc on the end)

[maroongem]

Nick,

Another cylinder you may run into is one made by the U.S. Phonograph Co. in Cleveland, OH. These had a celluloid skin bonded to what some call an asphaltum core. It is almost a hard waxy substance when scraped with the fingernail. These have a flat top and the titles are usually hard to read as they are stamped into the edge of the core. These will be marked 4-M for 4 minute and if not so marked will be 2 minute. These are either stamped U.S. Everlasting or Lakeside (for Montgomery Ward) The name Everlasting was later picked up by the Albany Indestructible Record Co when the Cleveland Co. went out of business due to litigation by the Edison Co, but these will be constructed the same as the typical celluloid Indestructible Record with the cardboard core stiffened by metal rings at the top and bottom. A quick rule of thumb on the Indestructible Record is, if it has a 4 digit serial number beginning with a 3, it is a 4M record.

[matty]

Here's a picture of a US Everlasting 4 minute cylinder, with "4M" before the record number 1200, and a 4 minute Lakeside.
As Bill said, all 4 minute cylinders made by the Indestructible Record Company (the ones with July29,02 & no brand name on the edge) will be in the 3000 number block, except the british series which are in the 7000 block. Both will include the "4M' though.

[nick13557]

thank you all for your help, its great that i now know what i am looking at. i had spent some time looking all over the net for this answer, and had no luck until now, so once again, thank you all very much.