|
|
Post by mcdaidjp on Jun 12, 2009 8:35:08 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by gibsonj on Jun 12, 2009 9:08:25 GMT -5
John That is a nice looking machine. Have you cleaned it up or did you receive it as pictured? The nickel plate on the mandrel looks exceptional. Nice example of a banner decal machine. Replace your belt with leather rather than the rubber ones you see pitched on Ebay. Here's a link with a "how-to": www.wyattsmusical.com/belts.htmlWelcome to the forum. John |
|
|
|
Post by mcdaidjp on Jun 12, 2009 10:04:02 GMT -5
I received it just the way it is pictured. I have not done a thing to it other than showing it to a friend who got me into this hobby. He has a fireside that he uses as a "conversation piece".
I'm wondering if I should oil the bearings, and grease the gears similar to what I did when I bought my Victrola. But I'm not sure what steps I should take prior to putting a cylinder on. I am really curious to watch the mandrel spin for the first time under belt power.
Thanks for the link. I think I can figure out how to cut and splice the belt.
|
|
|
|
Post by martin1 on Jun 12, 2009 10:33:54 GMT -5
Welcome to the board, John!
Nice photos! The Case looks to be in pretty good condition. The screw holes can be filled with glue and wood splinters (or toothpicks) and cut off flush with a razor when dry. The wood frames that support the top works are notoriously flimsy, so I try not to use that feature too much. Generally, I pull the whole works off of the frame when I do any serious work on mine. Before you go and order a new belt, you might want to check to see if the one you have was tensioned by the spring-loaded idler wheel. (It's amazing, but these old leather belts can still be quite servicable even when they are over 100 years old.)
The other thing that can affect the belt tension is the decay/disappearance of the rubber washers that go between the motor frame and bedplate. On later models, this was achieved by springs instead of rubber. On your motor pictures, I see metal nuts/washers, but no rubber. (That doesn't mean that they're not there, it's just I can't see them.) Your motor will be quieter and your playback will be smoother with fresh rubber at the mount points.
The last, best advice I can give you is to get a copy of Eric Reiss' book "The Compleat Talking Machine". Sorry if I cover ground that you've already trod, but more information is usually better. Have fun!
Martin
|
|
|
|
Post by matty on Jun 12, 2009 23:38:14 GMT -5
That is a very nice Standard Model A. This link might be worth a look. I cant remember now if it goes into lubricating the machine much, but I'd definately advise it. www.intertique.com/EdisonPhonographRepair.html* I had a quick look & they don't go into lubrication but it's pretty basic. Just use a light oil on all bearings & a light grease or vasoline on the gears. That will keep everything running smoothly. There's a few online manuals at this link too. They don't have one for the model A, but the other "Standards" are basically the same. nipperhead.com/old/ephemera.htm |
|
|
|
Post by mcdaidjp on Jun 16, 2009 15:37:54 GMT -5
Gentlemen, thank you for your responses. I have gone and ordered Eric's book and waiting on its arrival. I do have another update. I am not quite singing with joy but I seem to be getting closer. I bought some leather (2 packages just in case) and made 2 belts following the directions from your Internet sites. However I cannot manage to get the mandrel to turn. Attached are a few pictures. Maybe I am doing something wrong or just need an adjustment. What I can tell you is this. 1. Without the belt on the pulley on the underside automatically spins when starting lever is engaged. 2. The belt tightening pulley is in perfect alignment and spins when I roll my finger on it. 3. When I put the belt on it does not have enough power to spin all 3. 4. After the first belt, I tried cutting a longer belt thinking that the 1st belt was too tight. 5. When I installed the second belt, the pulley underneath started to engage but did not have enough grip on the belt to spin it. 6. I scratched my head, took some pictures and wrote this post. 7. Any ideas?     |
|
|
|
Post by Edison Restorer 64 on Jun 17, 2009 9:53:37 GMT -5
DAM!! Musuem Quality I would not do anything to it WOW WOW WOW
Thants all i can say
|
|
|
|
Post by martin1 on Jun 17, 2009 12:33:35 GMT -5
Hi John.
You're making progress. It may not feel like it, but you are. Making belts and working on governors are (for me) the hardest part of making these things work. It's probably more than one thing robbing you of power. You will need to eliminate excessive drag wherever you can: especially on the top works. With the belt removed and the endgate latched, does the mandrel turn freely? Does it coast a couple of turns after you give it a spin, or does it stop almost as soon as you take your hand off? Try oiling the bearings with a light oil and see if that helps. You may want to remove the gear cover to better observe what is happening in the gear train on the left side (it will also be easier to oil the bearings).
If everything on top is freely turning, check the belt belt again. If it seems too tight, it can be stretched. (Obviously, if you stretch too much you will have to shorten it and remake the splice.)
If it's still not turning, it's time to look at the bottom works. Slip the belt off of the bottom belt pulley, wind up the motor, and release the start lever. I gather from what you said that the motor should be working. Any unusual noises? Try grabbing the lower belt pulley. Does it slip on the shaft? Stop the motor and try oiling all the bearings. The governor shaft will need a little oil where the disc slides over the shaft. (Don't get oil on the governor disc.) Try running it awhile after oiling, let it run completely out a couple of times after full winds. This is a good time to watch the mechanism to see that things are running true and look for problems. Then try the belt again. Dirt and lubrication issues are the main thieves of power on these. Just be patient and observe. You will prevail!
BTW: If you are tempted to disassemble any part of the motor, it is REAL IMPORTANT THAT THE SPRING HAS NO TENSION. Pardon the loud typing, but not doing this can damage the machine and quite possibly yourself.
Good luck!
Martin
|
|
|
|
Post by dddave on Jun 17, 2009 19:00:56 GMT -5
John,
The belt looks awfully thick to me, maybe it's just the photo. Did you use leather specifically made for making belts for phonographs?
Dave
|
|
shellophone
Junior Member
Stand close enough and you can hear the ocean!
Posts: 69
|
Post by shellophone on Jun 17, 2009 20:44:52 GMT -5
Try flipping the belt over so the smooth side is up. Also, make sure all pivot points and gear teeth are clean and lubricated properly.
Very important!!! Send your reproducer to:
Steve Medved
(407) 348-0152
steve_noreen@msn.com
2505 Hikers Court
Kissimmee FL 34743-3601
He will rebuild it FREE for just the cost of parts (usually 50 cents for a pair of gaskets) + return shipping. No charge for labor! Rotate the stylus, polish the diaphragm -- everything!
VERY nice Standard! Congratulations!
John M
|
|
|
|
Post by mcdaidjp on Jun 19, 2009 9:08:50 GMT -5
BINGO! Yahtzee! Eureka!
I did it! Or I should say WE did it. I have finally got my standard up and running! I am so excited! Last night I was full of grease and oil, and I finally triumphed around 10pm. Gibsonj thanks for telling me what belt to buy. gramophoneshane thanks for the links. dddave thanks for the belt help. martin 1 thank you so much for telling me how to take the top gear covers off and start there. I made large gains on the top and since I had it apart continued on underneath.
It runs like a champ. I did not play a cylinder on to play yet because 1. I did not want to damage the cylinder and 2. I want to get my reproducer worked on (thanks shellophone).
So this is what I did, I started the standard, put a record on my Victrola and listened to them both run in harmony. It almost brought a tear to my eye; it was such a great sound.
Thank you everyone on this forum. I have learned so much already.
John
|
|
|
|
Post by martin1 on Jun 19, 2009 18:41:26 GMT -5
Glad to hear the good news, John! They are fascinating machines. With a rebuilt reproducer and a good cylinder, they can sound really good. Let us know your progress and have fun!
Martin
|
|
