Please help! "Alva" phonograph?

[whittington]

Hi everyone,

I need some advice. I was offered the opportunity to buy an edison phonograph from someone and can't find anything out online about it. Can anybody give me some information to the general value, rarity, desirablity, etc.?

Here is what I know. I have a picture of it and it looks at first glance to be a standard model in great shape. However, the guy selling it says its electric. So I started looking around for something similar for a general value guide and can't find anything. The only thing remotely close to this that I can find may be that of the "Alva" model, which I can't find much on at all so I may be way off.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

(I will show the picture if I can figure out how to post it on here)

[matty]

I think the Alva is basically an electric Triumph. I guess it could be a Class M, but theres a good chance also that what you've found is an "Ediphone" dictating machine.
There should be an ID tag on the machine which carries the serial number. The serial number should be a pretty good indication of what model it is, but a picture would be the most accurate way of idenifying what you've found.

This site shows most of the Business phonographs that Edison offered.

www.officemuseum.com/dictating_machines.htm

[shellophone]

Whittington,
It is a bit confusing when you say it looks like a "standard" model Edison, because one of Edison's models was called the 'Standard'! There is no "standard" model Edison in reality -- each model and iteration of that model is uniquely different. Perhaps to the untrained eye, they look the same, but to experienced collectors that is certainly not the case. The 'Alva' as GS said, is essentially a 'Triumph', but fitted with an 110VAC Edison 'Ekonowatt' motor rather than a 'Triton' spring motor. There is no crank hole on the side of the cabinet. The 'Alva' is very scarce. Value currently between $4-6K depending on condition and iteration.

Please post photos!

To post photos or images, size the images no more than 500 pixels wide with a resolution of 72dpi in whatever image processing program you use (i.e., Photoshop) and save them in a file.

Next, go to www.imageshack.com (you can also use other upload sites such as Photobucket, but I usually use ImageShack).

Click on 'Browse' and find the files you saved, select one, and click 'Open'. That file will appear in the box. Now click 'Start Upload'.

Electrons will begin to whirr, and in a few seconds, the page will refresh and will consists of a list of image links for various applications. About halfway down the page on the left you will see a box that says 'Include Details' -- un-check that box. This will shorten all the links on the page.

Go to the section marked 'Hotlinks for Forums'. Select either link (1) or (2), copy, and paste the image link into the message box on the discussion board.

The link you pasted in will show up as an image when the message is submitted.

Repeat the process for each image.

You can type in captions by typing between the pasted-in links. I always separate each image link with at least one blank line between them.

It is not as complicated as it may sound. I just keep ImageShack open in one window and the message board open on another and work between the two.

Here's a photo of one of my Amberola V's . . . it took me way less than 30 seconds to add this image to this post:



John M

[whittington]

John,

Thank you for the fast and informative reply. I would like to add, however, that I have quite a bit of experience in dealing with phonographs and early sound recordings alike. When I stated this appears to be in the form of a standard, I literally meant the "standard" model in that it is in fact shorter than the home, triumph, and others and resembles in many ways the appearance of the "standard". I thought the man was mistaken, but when looking closer at the pictures, I could see wiring as well as the terminal posts behind the mandrel. It is not a business phonograph or anything of similar sorts as I have owned them before and there is no shaver or other odd mechanisms like the spectacle reproducer carriage found on common business models.

I apologize for not clarifying my experience and maybe the fact that I haven't found a model like this means it is indeed an "Alva". I will post picture when I get home. In the meantime, I happened to acquire a rare Columbia Grafonola De Luxe Model 240 "Lion's Head" upright and if anyone is interested I would be more than happy to send pictures as it is going for sale in the next few days. (I know it's not an Edison so I apologize!)

Thanks again for the replies and I will put a picture on ASAP.

ps. If it helps at all the label is the "Edison" script label, and the machine has what appears to be an original Japanned horn as well as no hole for the crank. Any other suggestions?

[shellophone]

Because you did not capitalize the first letter of proper names, i.e.. Standard, Home, Triumph, I was confused. You DID capitalize "Columbia Grafonola De Luxe Model 240 'Lion's Head'" -- no confusion there, I know what that is! One with the music box sold out of a farmhouse near here just a few months ago for $300! No, I didn't get it.

Back to your electric machine, one thing I have learned in this hobby is to never say "never". I've never (there's that word again already) seen an electric Standard but I'm anxious to see your photos. There was a Triumph that Terry Baer bought at the church sale at Union that was rigged up with an electric motor and even a light on a post on the bedplate. Whoever did the modification did a very professional job of it. Perhaps you have something like that?

John M

[matty]

None of the ICS machines were ever equipt with an electric motor were they?
I've never seen one, but just thought I'd ask

[shellophone]

GS,
Not that I'm aware of.

I wonder if one could jack around a 'Business' machine and substitute a 'Standard' carriage? The thread pitch would be incorrect without some major modifications.

John M

[whittington]

Lets see if this works...

[bostonmike1]

G.S. and the rest of the guys----------Boy do I want to see the inner workings of this one!!! I hope the pictures are posted.

[shellophone]

Well, it is a 'Standard', but that toggle switch in the left front corner of the bedplate does not bode well for authenticity! Do you have a photo that shows a crank hole on the side?

I've seen electric motors jerry-rigged into Amberola 30's, too, and not done when the machine was new or even remotely new. The 'Triumph' Terry Baer picked up at Union looked like the modification was at least done when the cylinder format was still viable.

John M

[bostonmike1]

Jun 27, 2009 17:11:37 GMT -5 shellophone said:

Well, it is a 'Standard', but that toggle switch in the left front corner of the bedplate does not bode well for authenticity! Do you have a photo that shows a crank hole on the side?

I've seen electric motors jerry-rigged into Amberola 30's, too, and not done when the machine was new or even remotely new. The 'Triumph' Terry Baer picked up at Union looked like the modification was at least done when the cylinder format was still viable. John--- There is no need to be a "pompous authorithy" as your post implies. We "little" people just want to converse, learn and explore. We cannot all be as "smart or learned" as you. You, with your reply, in all counts chased this man away from responding again on this issue. All I asked to see was pictures of the internal unit he possesses--- this is only a HOBBY for the great majority of us ---------phonographs new and old are just that !!In my opinion, when you reply to peoples' questions or concerns, SHOW THE VERY LITTLE BIT OF HUMILITY!!!MICHAEL

John M

Mike has been banned from this board, for this and other posts. Sorry to do this folks, but I DID say that I wouldn't tolerate this sort of thing....

No need to discuss any further as far as I'm concerned.

Can we get back on topic, please?

Matt

[matty]

Well it's certainly an interesting machine to say the least.
It appears to be a regular Standard "B" with a hole drilled for the toggle switch. or an "A" upper works in a "B" cabinet.
Personally, I'd be tempted to remove the toggle switch & check if the hole is japanned or bare metal, and if the hole itself is the same size as is found for the speed control on the Model A bedplate.
I guess without seeing the motor & how it's all put together, it's really impossible to say whether or not it's an old or new modification.

I think as a potential buyer, it would be well worth your while to examine the machine in person. The absents of a crank hole could be due to a well done plug, or the whole side may have been replaced, and both may not be easy to pick from photographs.
It would be interesting to know the serial number, and if there is any unusual variation that might indicate it left the factory as an electric Standard.
Having some experience with phonographs & business machines, you'd most likely find you'll know in a second whether it left the factory this way or not, if you can see it in person.

I must admit I'd be very tempted to add it to my collection, whether it's a prototype or special order, or even an alteration done 80 yrs ago, or 8 weeks ago. Naturally my conclusions would be the major factor in the price I was willing to pay.

[maroongem]

It would be interesting to see if this machine incorporates an Econowatt motor as found in Edison's Business machines. This should be prominently marked on the armature housing via a plate.
Where does the power cord emanate from? Is there a metal escutcheon around the hole in the case for it? As Shane pointed out, it looks like a Mod. A bedplate (due to the location of the switch where once the speed control was) married to the later 1906 case as evidenced by the decal on the front. It would also be interesting to see the drive train from the motor to the mandrel.
From the pic supplied, it also appears to have a Mod. D or later gear cover, if my eyes aren't deceiving me.
Recently, there was a PUCK style machine for sale on eBay that some clever "home mechanic" wired up a small electric motor to in lieu of the string driven clock work motor. Sadly, that would definitely decrease the value of that particular machine!
Where you have mastered the posting of pix to the board, could you please add more, particularly the motor and other shots of the case sides?

Bill

[jnorman111]

(J.M.J.)

If any of you know how to contact Gary Bernstein of Rhode Island I know he purchased an Alva at the recent show at Union. He showed it to me as he was loading it right before he left the show on saturday. I don't really recall for sure but I seem to think he said he had found it at the Union show earlier that day for somewhere in the high $2000 range? I know Bill Floyd knows him per a phone conversation last year.

[kevan]

HI All
Someone interested in Gary B Bernstein email is [e-mail]

Gary hope you don't mined...... I know you could help in this mystery.


Kevan