Cylinder Questions

[crow]

I have a few cylinder questions I’m hoping someone can help me with. I’m trying to match up cylinders with sleeves (boxes). I have two types of the Blue Amberol sleeves. The blue with gold/white lettering and Edison’s larger picture and the orange with blue lettering and Edison’s smaller picture. Is there an easy way to match these up? Maybe something simple like a certain number cylinder forward/backward goes with a certain sleeve? Maybe I’m asking for too much! (of course it could be easier if I had the caps)
Also I have a black beveled edge cylinder with smooth plaster that is marked Cornet – Last Rose of Summer, 2506, I.I.R. Co. What company is this?
Are all of the Blue Amberol 5000 series good?
Thank you for any insight! Jennifer

[crow]

OK, a couple more questions if you will indulge me. I have sleeves for Everlasting/Indestructible 2 and 4 cylinders, Oxford 2 and 4 minute cylinders and Lakeside/Montgomery Ward cylinders. It seems that the only cylinders themselves that are marked are the Edison. Is there anyway, without going crazy, to sort out/match up the other cylinders? I do see that the black flat top cylinders are two types, shiny, and a dull rubber like finish that’s hard to read. Many thanks, Jennifer

[matty]

This is a part of a project I've been working on. While I dont know the exact dates each label change took place, it should put them in order for you, and you should be able to place most cylinders in their correct boxes according to the dates they were recorded/released.
I believe the first 2 boxes were used for the flat top blue amberols,and the last blue box was introduced in 1915 when the first bevelled edged BA's were introduced.
Perhaps someone may know the dates each change took place?

The first style box was dark blue in colour, and was constructed much the same as the 4 minute wax Amberol box, although the box was a little smaller due to the lack of a cotton lining.
This box appears to have no Form Number or patents information on the label.



The next box remained the same, only Form No.475 June 1, 1912 was added above Edison's picture.



The last of the blue boxes again remained the same, except this label uses Form No.475 Dec 1913, and Edison's picture is printed in a darker brown.



In late December 1917, a new cheaper (and again slightly smaller) box was introduced using an orange label with a blue lid. This box used Form No.3509 Feb 1917, and a dual coloured print of Edison which resembled a colour photograph. The last patent on this label is Sept 29,1914.



The next box used a single colour for Edison's face, and the patents box was altered, making it more readable. The old Form Number format seems to have been discontinued at this time, and was replaced by the number 3509-125M-418. This number was used on all orange boxes there after. The price of 60 cents was also added to the patents box.



In 1923, Edison reduced the price of records & machines in an attempt to boost sales. On this new label, Edison's photo was replaced by a drawing of Edison, and the price of 35 cents was added to the front of the box. At the same time, a cheaper lid was also introduced.



The next label no longer feature an image of Edison, but the price of 35 cents remained on the front.



The last label was the same as the one before except this time no price was included on the label.



I have not yet done the lid label changes, but will try & complete & post those here too today.

[maroongem]

Jul 23, 2009 16:06:33 GMT -5 crow said:

OK, a couple more questions if you will indulge me. I have sleeves for Everlasting/Indestructible 2 and 4 cylinders, Oxford 2 and 4 minute cylinders and Lakeside/Montgomery Ward cylinders. It seems that the only cylinders themselves that are marked are the Edison. Is there anyway, without going crazy, to sort out/match up the other cylinders? I do see that the black flat top cylinders are two types, shiny, and a dull rubber like finish that’s hard to read. Many thanks, Jennifer

Jennifer,

The Everlasting/Indestructible & Oxford (Sears & Roebuck) were made by the Albany Indestructible Record Company of Albany, NY.
These records will have a flat top with the info incised (and usually highlighted in white with a patent date of July '02. They also have a cardboard core reinforced with metal rings top & bottom.
The Montgomery Ward/Lakeside cylinders were made by the U.S. Phonograph Co. of Cleveland, OH and will have a waxy core and a flat top with incised info. They will say U.S Everlasting on the rim and have a patent date of Dec 11, 06. Both companies marked their four minute records as "4M' on the rim.
Both have a celluloid surface. Oxford records are often times found molded in a pale blue celluloid.

Bill

*Edited for bad spelling!

[shellophone]

Jennifer,
The 'Cylinder History' link on this excellent website provides a thorough basic overview of various cylinder types one may encounter:

cylinders.library.ucsb.edu

John M

[matty]

Also I have a black beveled edge cylinder with smooth plaster that is marked Cornet – Last Rose of Summer, 2506, I.I.R. Co. What company is this?

Anyone know what this is?
It's a new one on me.

[crow]

Thank You Shane. Thank You Bill. Thank you John. That makes sense and helps. I appreciate it. Jennifer

[matty]

Here are the different BA lid labels
I'm actually no sure just how accurate the number cut-off's for each label is, but these are the numbers I was given by another collector.
I don't take them as gospel, but only approximate when I replace missing labels.
If anyone knows any different, I'd love to know myself. Corrections are always welcome

[ddddyyyy]

I agree with crow




SPAM REMOVED.

Matt, please ban ddddyyyy.

Rocky

[maroongem]

It is now obvious that ddddyyyy is a spambot of some type.

[maroongem]

Keep in mind too that any cylinder that wasn't cut out (deleted) from the catalogue will have whatever current box and lid was in print at the time.
For example, I have in front of me #1648 "DIXIE" rel March 1913 and was a direct recording and originally a flat top BA. This one is a later beveled edge and is in the last style box and pressed lid.

Bill

[rocky]

Good point! I note that my copy of "By the light of the silvery moon" (BA 1521) has an orange box and the light-colored lid that came out in the '20s. Obviously this record enjoyed longevity in the Edison catalog.

Rocky