|
|
Post by kswildcat on Aug 3, 2009 10:11:10 GMT -5
Hello all. I am new to the Edison discussion board and hope that someone can advise me on an Edison phonograph that I purchased at an estate sale last week. It is an Amberola cylinder 1A and is serial numbered 1838. The plate in the cabinet shows type S M and model A and the bedplate is maroon in color and has the 2M-4M gear switch knob so I am guessing that the cabinet is mahogany (even though the auctioneer called it oak). It plays perfectly and in fantastic condition except that the Rococo grill is missing a couple of small pieces of wood. This is the first Edison I have ever owned and I simply could not pass up the opportunity to buy such a beautiful piece.
My question is this - should I try to and find a vintage replacement Rococo grill or purchase a reproduction grill? Also, I know a wonderful wood cabinet maker that could probably repair the grill to look as good as new. The rest of the cabinet is in nrmt condition - (Man - I had no idea those things weighed so much until I loaded it and unloaded it in my pickup -with help of course!)
I would appreciate any advice anyone could give me on what to do about the grill or tell me more about the machine I purchased. I think it was probably made around 1910. I am new to this area and only know what I have researched in the last past week on the net. I have no idea what it is worth. Thanks All - Rob
|
|
|
|
Post by phonogfp on Aug 3, 2009 10:41:56 GMT -5
Rob, Well, congratulations on purchasing an Amberola 1A...that's one heck of a start! I've just completed a 3-part article on the development of this machine, the final installment of which will appear in the September issue of the Journal of the California Antique Phonograph Society, The Sound Box. They're wonderful machines with an interesting history. You're right - - 1910 would be the year for No.1838. There were about 3500 of these built from late 1909 until the fall of 1911. The part of your Amberola that holds the stylus is called the reproducer. It will be marked with an "M", possibly an "L", or not marked at all. Which reproducer do you have? As for the grille, if only small parts are missing and you have access to an expert woodworker, I'd have him repair it. These grilles occasionally surface on eBay, as the same cabinet was used for the Amberola 1B, and the Edison Disc Phonograph A-250 and B-250. Best of luck with your Amberola - - enjoy it!  George P. |
|
|
|
Post by kswildcat on Aug 3, 2009 11:01:17 GMT -5
Many thanks George. The phonograph is in my storage unit and I'll have to go and look to see if it is L or M. It is a 4 drawer unit and has metal clips to hold the cylinders in each drawer. It also came with 91 Edison Blue Amberol cylinders that I haven't cataloged yet. Am I correct that the maroon bedplate was only used in mahogany cabinets? And if I have the cabinet maker repair the grill as opposed to finding another original will that devalue the player?
Regards and thanks again.
Rob
|
|
|
|
Post by martin1 on Aug 3, 2009 13:20:12 GMT -5
Hi Rob.
Very good find on your part! As to repairing versus replacing, that is where you get into personal collecting philosophy. This is my take on it:
The history of a given machine is immutable. As curator of this historical item, one must maintain it and document any repairs or replacements. If one replaces the original grille with another original grille, the originality is somewhat affected, (not necessarily, the value). Personally, I'd rather try to save an original piece if it's at all possible. There are a few good cabinet repair people out there (and lots of bad ones, too). The main thing is trying to maintain as much originality (including the old finish).
If it's a minor repair and it blends well, then I personally think it wouldn't affect the value much. That said, there are some occasions where something is so shot, that it is much cheaper (and better) to replace the piece and preserve the damaged original as a record to the machine's history. Welcome to the board and let us know how you like your new 1A!
Regards,
Martin
|
|
|
|
Post by phonogfp on Aug 3, 2009 13:33:13 GMT -5
Rob,
I agree completely with Martin's assessment of the grille situation. Save the original whenever possible...
All the 1As and 1Bs have 4 drawers, and all but a handful have metal clips to hold the cylinder boxes. The 91 Blue Amberol cylinders suggest that the original owner may have traded in the original equipment reproducer for a Diamond A - it's a better match for Blue Amberols. But all just a guess on my part...
Yes, the bedplates were generally painted maroon for mahogany, and finished in gunmetal for oak, although a few legitimate aberrations exist. Your Amberola 1A originally sold for $200.00.
Best wishes - -
George P.
|
|
|
|
Post by martin1 on Aug 3, 2009 13:46:09 GMT -5
A new one for $200? I'd take a USED one for $200! ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by kswildcat on Aug 3, 2009 17:37:18 GMT -5
Thank you Gentlemen for your information. I went out to my storage shed and played the Amberola again and also to look for a letter on the reproducer. I did not see any letter but the reproducer is dark colored and there was a copper colored backwards looking S streak on the top of it as well as other copper colored streaks. Where would the letter be located? Was that a common practice to change out the reproducer and upgrade it and does that devalue it? I catalogued the cylinders and not all of them were blue but some were dark black. Some names were Dalhart, Collins, Ada Jones, lots of Hawaiian music, and NY Military Band.
The Amberola has the screw in crank handle and a key to lock the cabinet lid. Also there is another knob on the bedplate beside the 2m-4m knob that is 160rpm.
From what I've seen on the net the cabinet appears to be the "Pooley" version? The decal in the lid is intact and complete.
Thanks again for any help you all are giving me. Not that it is for sale buy does anyone have a ballpark idea what my player might be worth? Sorry to be asking so many questions.
Many thanks.
Rob
|
|
shellophone
Junior Member
Stand close enough and you can hear the ocean!
Posts: 69
|
Post by shellophone on Aug 3, 2009 18:55:09 GMT -5
Rob,
google 'The Edison Shop' and take a look at the Edison reproducer guide there. M reproducers have flip-over styli to play both 2 & 4M. L's have the same round tabbed weight, but only a single 4M sapphire stylus. Diamond A's look something like a smaller Diamond Disc reproducer and they are not stamped. The others may be stamped on the tab of the weight. All are finished in anodized copper as you describe.
Do not play wax records with the A! Only the blue ones!
John
|
|
|
|
Post by phonogfp on Aug 3, 2009 20:26:46 GMT -5
Rob,
Sounds like your reproducer is the Diamond A. It was a reasonably common practice for Amberola 1A owners (and early 1B owners as well) to obtain a Diamond A for playing Blue Amberols. (For this reason, many 1As are found with 2 reproducers.) A Model M is worth a bit more, but in the context of the 1A, it doesn't make much difference. I've seen 1As for sale recently for around $4500. Just a ballpark figure for a decent example - your mileage may vary.
The early cabinet for the 1A was designed by Peter Weber, and features a lid with smoothly sloping sides. The Pooley cabinet appeared in mid-1910 and its lid has shallow "steps" on the sloping sides. There are several other differences between the Weber and Pooley cabinets, but the lid is probably the easiest to assess.
George P.
|
|
|
|
Post by Valecnik on Aug 4, 2009 1:53:22 GMT -5
Rob, Regarding what to do about the grill, I would agree that if it's largely intact with pieces missing to have it professionally restorred.
I'd be cautious on giving it to your cabinet maker though unless he's done that kind of stuff before. A real expert repair would cost more but an expert would be able to make it look as though a repair had almost never been done, probably using old wood that matches.
If you can't find someone you are absolutely confident in, probably better to leave it as is in my opinion.
Best of luck your new aquisition.
Bruce
|
|
shellophone
Junior Member
Stand close enough and you can hear the ocean!
Posts: 69
|
Post by shellophone on Aug 4, 2009 6:36:56 GMT -5
Luthiers are often more adept (and reasonable) at these types of repairs than furniture repairmen.
John M
|
|
|
|
Post by kswildcat on Nov 17, 2009 16:00:50 GMT -5
Hello all. About 3 months ago I started this thread by telling about the Edison Amberola 1A that I purchased at an estate sale. Unfortunately, my 3 year old grandson has been diagnosed with a rare genetic disorder called Xeroderma Pigmentosum, and I am going to have to sell the Amberola to help with medical bills, travel, etc. as his family will be taking him back to Maryland to the National Institute of Health to do a protocol study. The Rococo grill is being repaired as I speak and will be finished this next week and I should then be able to take pictures. It is in wonderful condition and plays nice. Rather than sell it on ebay, I would rather see a collector from this site purchase and own it, as you were all so kind in helping me when I first purchased it and I was so excited to own it. All of the details about the Amberola are within this thread regarding serial number, decal, etc. If you are interested in having me email the pictures to you in order to make an offer please contact me at purplecatter@hotmail.com . The machine is located in northeast Kansas (about 2 hours southwest of Kansas City). I know this is not under the right area to post something for sale, but this way it is tied to the info on the 1A that I have. God Bless and thanks. Rob
|
|
|
|
Post by martin1 on Nov 17, 2009 21:39:24 GMT -5
Hi Rob.
I'm so sorry to hear about your grandson's illness. I'm sure that I speak for all of us here on the board, when I say that our thoughts and prayers are with you and your grandson. Phonographs are cool, but nothing is cooler than being a Grandpa.
Martin (aka: Martin1, Martinola)
|
|
|
|
Post by kswildcat on Jul 26, 2010 8:44:24 GMT -5
Well, I finally got around to having the original Rococco grill for my 1A repaired by a professional woodworker and it looks fantastic. Took longer than I expected but there has been a lot of health issues over the last 8 months in our family and the Edison wasn't my top priority. Heading for the National Institute of Health next month with my 4 year old Grandson. He has had 5 skin cancers taken off since last November and more surgery for him after we get back from NIH. Anyway, my Edison Amberola 1A is now for sale complete with 91 cylinders. It is in fantastic original condition (other than the minor repair of the grill), and from what I have been told probably has the Diamond A reproducer. The serial number is 1838 and I believe it was manufactured in 1910. I think it is the "Pooley" mahogany version with maroon bedplate, and has the 2M-4M gear switch knob and the 160 RPM knob. The Edison decal is intact and complete. It plays nicely, and has the original crank handle and a key that locks the cabinet lid (I don't know if the key is original). It has 4 drawers. I am offering it for sale to the highest offer until September 1st. It will have to be picked up at my location 2 hours southwest of Kansas City. I have an auctioneer who is begging me to let him put it on proxibid internet auction, but I would like for a true collector on this site to own it in their collection. If you are interested and would like to make an offer my email is purplecatter@hotmail.com. Thanks in advance and God Bless. Rob
|
|
|
|
Post by kswildcat on Feb 8, 2011 16:48:27 GMT -5
Well I finally got around to getting my grill professionaly repaired and my Amberola 1A is up for sale at an auction house in Beatrice, Nebraska on Feb. 20th. Thanks to everyone who gave me advice on this beautiful Edison. It is in super condition and plays nicely. If anyone is interested in bidding online they can find my 1A for sale on proxibid.com at: www.proxibid.com/asp/AuctionsByCompany.asp?ahid=1247 |
|
