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Post by neophone on Apr 23, 2007 2:59:41 GMT -5
Gents, While perusing the 'Bay looking for things to spend my money on... . I am presented with a conundrum! What is playable on my Amberola 50? BA's, obviously. No wax cylinders, but are all Indestructibles celluloid? What are Everlastings made of? what about Lakeside? Are there two minute celluloid cylinders? Can they be played? (No I'll bet.) [For example I have a cylinder I bought years ago. It is in a box that says "Columbia Gold Moulded Indestructible Cylinder Record .35ยข" The cylinder itself is no. 802, Song That's Why I Never Married. Roberts Pat'd July. 29, '02] Do all 4 min cylinders say 4 min on them? Regards, J.
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Post by gramophoneshane on Apr 23, 2007 3:27:27 GMT -5
Both Indestructables & Everlastings will have 4M before the record numbers. They're celluloid and will work on an amberola. I don't have any Lakesides, so can't say as far as having 4M before the rec no. I should imagine if they made both 2 & 4 min cylinders, these too would include 4M before the rec no.
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Post by maroongem on Apr 23, 2007 8:14:47 GMT -5
John,
The Lakesides will also have 4M before the title, as will the Oxfords.
Bill
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Post by neophone on Apr 24, 2007 0:57:26 GMT -5
Gents,
So if any of the "off-brand" cylinders don't have 4 Min printed on them it's a no go? Did any of those makers manufacture 4 minute wax or are they all celluloid?
Regards, J.
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Post by gramophoneshane on Apr 24, 2007 5:50:40 GMT -5
As far as I'm aware, Edison was the only one to make 4 min wax records. I could be wrong though. I think everyone else was making celluloid by the time 4 min wax was introduced?
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ultona
Full Member
It's Not Easy Bein' Green
Posts: 164
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Post by ultona on Apr 24, 2007 8:55:21 GMT -5
Yup. Spot on, Shane. Edison was the only one who made 4 minute wax cylinders. A bit of advice for you John, while 4 minute celluloid cylinders like the Albany Indestructible family of them (Oxford, Columbia, Lakeside) are nice, they can have tracking issues. I wouldn't spend much on them just in case (or if you can listen to it in advance!). US Everlastings are a pleasure to listen to, well recorded and although I hear they can have problems too, I haven't encountered any "problem children" in my small accumulation of them. Now I wouldn't mind having a few 2 minute Everlastings! They sound phenomenal! I think I'll look for some of those at Wayne this Sunday.... Sean
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Post by maroongem on Apr 24, 2007 12:28:22 GMT -5
Shane is correct on the varying quality of the metal banded celluloids made by Indestructible (later they partnered with Columbia around '08). I have a few that look like they've never been played, yet the sound is poor, either with sapphire or with a Diamond B. They hung in until they had a fire in '20 (one can only imagine the flames when it met with the celluloid compounds!) and I believe they made the cylinders for the Dolly Rekord and other phono dolls made by Averill. The U.S. Everlastings are truly the best sounding, IMHO, of all the celluloid cylinders of the times. They only have two probs that I have run across and those are the swelling of the composition core and the other is the splitting at the seam where the sheet of celluloid was bonded together. If you look closely at the ones you own, you may see a slight line in the dead wax area, but not always. You can't ream them with the typical reamer used on plaster cored cylinders (because the material loads up the sandpaper and is a pregnant dog to get off), but if you want to pay, you can purchase a 2" metal taper reamer at a good hardware store. These do a very good job of opening up the core. I'll post a few 2 & 4 M selections tomorrow if I get a chance, so you can hear how clean sounding they are.
Bill
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ultona
Full Member
It's Not Easy Bein' Green
Posts: 164
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Post by ultona on Apr 24, 2007 12:51:49 GMT -5
Interesting fact, the Albany Indestructible Company (who also made Federal Records - purple label 78s) was located at 186 Hamilton Street in downtown Albany, just a little less than a block from where I am sitting at my desk at work right now. The Nelson D. Rockefeller Empire State Plaza complex (across the street from the State Capital building here on State St.) covers several bocks that were "removed" during the 1960s to make way for the "complex" that's there now. Too bad, I would have loved to have at least seen what was once a pressing plant. The Indestructible / Federal company made lots of "client" pressings, yes, talking doll records included. The disc operation sometimes pressed records for Silvertone, Resona, Emerson, and others as well until the fire, which was actually in 1922** (which I think actually started in the shoe factory - they shared the building). Federals were then pressed by the Scranton Button Company in Scranton, PA afterward until Federal folded in '23 or '24. Scranton continued pressing discs far into the 1960s for several labels, including Capital Records in the 1950s. Too much info?? Sean **I checked the date on the fire at home last night, 'twas in 1922, according to Sutton and Nauck's Label Book.
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Post by neophone on Apr 24, 2007 16:49:40 GMT -5
Gents,
Thanks for the input and advice. Sean, yes I have read about the problems with Oxfords et al. Right now I'm not paying more that $5.00 or so for anything and I'm mostly looking for small lots of cylinders. I have ten or twelve Oxfords now and do have a skip or two on a couple of them. I think for the most part I'll stick with BA's but I do like to have at least one example of each brand/label. Bill, I know what you mean, two of the Oxfords I have look pristine, but don't sound very good.
Regards, J.
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Post by maroongem on Apr 26, 2007 10:46:11 GMT -5
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Post by neophone on Apr 27, 2007 1:10:12 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I didn't have the auto shut-off set quite right for Flannagan, so it nipped the end off! Oh well, Enjoy!! Bill "Sure'n you oughta have more cents than that says I..." ;D ;D ;D ;D Thanks Bill, great recordings! I have Oxford 3265, the 4M of Everybody's Doin' It, Collins. Your 2M Everlasting has more spirit and pep I think. Regards, J.
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Post by rocky on Apr 27, 2007 11:32:01 GMT -5
Interesting rendition of "Everybody's doin' it"! Quite different from the American Quartet's Victor rendition.
Rocky
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Post by condensite on Apr 27, 2007 17:00:19 GMT -5
Since you mentioned the Amberola 1A, perhaps you can tell me how noisy you think the gear mechanism is as it runs. Mine is noticeably loud, though I've had it serviced. I suspect it's a worn governor gear or something like that. What's your experience and advice? Thanks Condensite
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Post by maroongem on Apr 28, 2007 5:46:36 GMT -5
Hmmm..... Mine doesn't present anymore noise than any of my other all gear driven Amberolas, just the whir of the mandrel. Perhaps a bit of white grease on the main gears will quiet it down.
Bill
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steve
Full Member
Posts: 130
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Post by steve on May 14, 2007 19:05:09 GMT -5
Bill,
Are your recordings still available?
My 2 minute U S Everlasting recording of Waiting for the Robert E Lee looks bad, but sound really good and when played with a diamond B on my Triumph with a wooden horn it is as loud as my C-250. The soft celluloid is the best cylinder medium, in my opinion. They do not have the surface noise of the Mexican series Edison Blue Amberol 2 minute cylinders.
Steve
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