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Post by lukewarmwater on Sept 15, 2007 7:41:51 GMT -5
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Post by MT Phono on Sept 15, 2007 10:45:23 GMT -5
Hey Luke,
<<Excuse the dumb question but I haven't seen a gun-metal finish on phono in person before!>>
How different are the gun metal and nickel plated finishes? Is it subtle?
What is the base material on the 1A - cast iron?
Regards,
MTPhono
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Post by maroongem on Sept 15, 2007 11:36:30 GMT -5
There was a machine similar to this on Ebay several yrs ago but the bedplate was maroon as it should be on a 1-A, but had the horn/reproducer stanchion as found on a Opera. It had a cygnet as found on an Edison school and was all repainted. This was in an Opera case and the seller claimed this was a machine that was put together by a factory worker that was allowed to bring the parts home. Not Surprising, the bidder IDs were private.
This machine (and the story I suspect) was pure fantasy. It closed at around $3,600.00 or so and I always wondered whom the buyer was.
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Post by lukewarmwater on Sept 15, 2007 13:03:57 GMT -5
Gun-metal is a chemically applied satin finish and is not shiny bright like nickel. I once had an oak I-A in gun-metal that I got from Joe Manzo. I have only hand-polished the nickel mech on this example, so it is not as mirror-like as it can be. When I find a case, I'll disassemble it and wheel polish it. Yes, the base metal is cast iron. However, my early I-A has stamped sheet-metal gear covers!
Maroongem, I saw a very heavily "restored" I-A/Opera on eBay back around 2000. It was refinished to shiny finish on cabinet and all metal parts had been gold plated. Looked like hell -- way gaudy -- but again, was an external horn IA. Ken B. had one in oak, then the one you mentioned, and mine. I wonder what the back story on these is? Luke W.
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Post by gramophoneshane on Sept 15, 2007 17:05:02 GMT -5
Luke- Is yours a 4 minute only works? I guess this is what the internal horn version was like. Do the A1's usually have painted gear housings? It's a bit hard to make out how the bedplate was treated in this picture.  |
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Post by maroongem on Sept 15, 2007 17:34:56 GMT -5
Here are a few pix of our Amberola 1-A. As you can see, it has the proper maroon paint on the bedplate. The bright work is gold & oxidized copper. Both covers are cast iron and the ser.# is 510. The 1-A motors were 2/4 and the 1-B utlilized the same motor as the Opera and Amberola III and was only 4 min. Bill   |
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Post by maroongem on Sept 15, 2007 17:37:43 GMT -5
Maroongem, I saw a very heavily "restored" I-A/Opera on eBay back around 2000. It was refinished to shiny finish on cabinet and all metal parts had been gold plated. Looked like hell -- way gaudy -- but again, was an external horn IA. Ken B. had one in oak, then the one you mentioned, and mine. I wonder what the back story on these is? Luke W. All I can tell you about those machines is that they didn't leave Edison's factory. Whose, I couldn't say.......................... |
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Post by lukewarmwater on Sept 15, 2007 20:09:06 GMT -5
Luke- Is yours a 4 minute only works? I guess this is what the internal horn version was like. Do the A1's usually have painted gear housings? It's a bit hard to make out how the bedplate was treated in this picture. The nickel-plated mech is 2/4 with an M reproducer. I-A's were available in painted finish or special finishes such as gun-metal or nickel. I've seen several gun-metal I-A's, but this is the only nickel one I've seen and I've been collecting since 1967. Luke |
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Post by maroongem on Sept 15, 2007 21:21:28 GMT -5
There seems to be some confusion here that the 1-A came out in a outside horn version. They were strictly an inside horn machine and any variation is a put to gether.
Bill
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Post by gramophoneshane on Sept 15, 2007 22:42:41 GMT -5
No confusion- I probably should have been clearer and said that the motor Luke has would have looked like the one in the pic I posted, had it not been set up for an external horn.
Same motor, but different reproducer to horn assembly.
I suppose it is possible this could have left the factory with nickel plating. Not so long ago I saw a nickelled Standard or Triumph (not sure now which it was) on ebay. I guess if you had the money to spend in those days, anything was possible. Special decorations were available for the bed plates, so variations must occure.
** Just looking at my catalogue, it seems any machine could be nickel plated for $25 extra, or gold plated for $50, so its not surprising there isn't many around.
The way I read this, all the oak A1's had the gun metal finish, and the mahogany version had the "dark red and gilt enamel" finish.
Bill- Whats the story with your grille? Why is it different to the one I posted, and the one in my catalogue?
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Post by lukewarmwater on Sept 16, 2007 7:28:26 GMT -5
"Put together" or not, with the exception of its slightly noisier belt-driven motor, an external horn I-A is the ultimate cylinder phonograph for listening purposes, I think. I keep it in my office now because of the ugly case, but as soon as I find a proper case for it, it will live in a more public area of our house. I play it more than my Operas -- it is so convenient to have both speeds. It came from the hoard of a deceased radio collector. I've attached photos of what it looked like in situ. Still very curious about the origin of the horn adapters. Whoever made them did so a long time ago. The sewing machine lid was never drilled for a crank hole, so the adapter must pre-date the use of the lid as a case.   Gramophoneshane -- Typically, mahogany I-A's had maroon bedplates, while oak I-A's had brown bedplates. Gun-metal bedplates were an option, but I've never seen a gun-metal mech in a mahogany cabinet, only in oak. The mandrels were all typically oxidized bronze until the introduction of Blue Amberols at which time they were changed to gun-metal to avoid abrasion to the finish by the plaster cores. I am speaking now of the progression of the traversing mandrel models including I-B, III, Opera and Concert, not just the I-A. Luke W. |
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Post by gramophoneshane on Sept 16, 2007 8:12:51 GMT -5
If it is a "made-up" elbow, they sure did a great job!
Does the stylus lower to the record via the on/off switch still, or is there some other way of lowering it?
I wonder if all the early A1 oak's had gun metal finishes, and then later used the brown paint? The Oct 1910 catalogue makes no mention of brown being available at that time. It only says dark red for mahogany and gun metal for oak.
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Post by maroongem on Sept 16, 2007 8:51:13 GMT -5
No confusion- I probably should have been clearer and said that the motor Luke has would have looked like the one in the pic I posted, had it not been set up for an external horn. Same motor, but different reproducer to horn assembly. I suppose it is possible this could have left the factory with nickel plating. Not so long ago I saw a nickelled Standard or Triumph (not sure now which it was) on ebay. I guess if you had the money to spend in those days, anything was possible. Special decorations were available for the bed plates, so variations must occure. ** Just looking at my catalogue, it seems any machine could be nickel plated for $25 extra, or gold plated for $50, so its not surprising there isn't many around. The way I read this, all the oak A1's had the gun metal finish, and the mahogany version had the "dark red and gilt enamel" finish. Bill- Whats the story with your grille? Why is it different to the one I posted, and the one in my catalogue? Shane, Plating other than the standard paint was offered on many of Edison's higher end machines for a price as you say. I have seen a gold plated Opera once, and it was quite stunning. As far as the grille on my machine, the lyre grille was used in the early machines into the 500 serial range. It was changed to an intermediate grille(very scarce) and finally the rococo grille you have depicted, right through the Amberola 1-B and beyond into the DD A-250/B-250 series. The standard color of the Amberola 1-B bedplate was brown and was the same motor as used in the Opera & Amberola III. This motor was all gear driven and the auto shut off was changed and the stylus no longer raised when the machine shut off. I consider this to be Edison's finest motor for his cylinder machines. The one used in the Amberola V table model (again all gear driven) was considered for the Amberola 1-A according to Frow but was apparently never implemented. Bill |
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Post by lukewarmwater on Sept 16, 2007 9:26:59 GMT -5
If it is a "made-up" elbow, they sure did a great job! Does the stylus lower to the record via the on/off switch still, or is there some other way of lowering it? I wonder if all the early A1 oak's had gun metal finishes, and then later used the brown paint? The Oct 1910 catalogue makes no mention of brown being available at that time. It only says dark red for mahogany and gun metal for oak. It starts or stops when the stylus is lowered or raised. The knob on the left front of the bedplate starts/stops the motor regardless of stylus position. It also shuts off with the automatic stop. Luke W. |
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