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Post by maroongem on Dec 8, 2007 14:18:16 GMT -5
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Post by lukewarmwater on Dec 8, 2007 15:36:05 GMT -5
Absolutely gorgeous beautiful machine, Bill. The horns are woven sisal fiber, impregnated with rabbit-hide glue to stiffen them, then gessoed and grain painted. The horizontal stiffener bar along the bottom is secured to the cabinet with screws, but the top stiffener bar is not secured to anything . . . the horn bell is essentially self-supporting! Edison made sure to not connect the horn to the cabinet any more than necessary to circumvent Victor's Victrola patents. Same MO for the slots on the sides so that the sound wasn't projecting entirely from the front of the cabinet; and the bedplate not mounted to wood or touching the sides of the cabinet. My I-A is serial #2 and has many odd things about it. For example, the mechanism covers above the bedplate are stamped sheet metal rather than iron castings, and it has the flat steel key locks. According to the research I did for my book "American Phonograph Design Patents 1897-1916" , the cabinet was designed by Peter Weber of Orange, NJ and assigned to the New Jersey Patent Company of West Orange (Edison's patent holding company). The patent is #40,347 and was filed 9/11/09 and awarded 11/09/09. These cabinets were produced by several cabinet shops for Edison, including Herzog. You have a beautiful example there! Please let me know if it is ever for sale. I'd like to be first in line! Luke W.
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Post by maroongem on Dec 8, 2007 18:27:41 GMT -5
Thanks, Luke!
Tell me, does your drawers for the cylinders have clips or wood partitions? My bedplate is the standard cast iron and is held in the usual fashion by three cast plates attached to the inside of the cabinet. I was familiar with the other nomenclature regarding designer and patents and knew that Herzog lost the cabinet manufacturing to Pooley due to dissatisfaction of cabinets & delivery dates. I do think that the Herzog cabinets were more ornate though. I'm working on an earlier machine at present, some where in the 200 range, and this machine has the the wood dividers instead of the clips. BTW, is your book published? I'm always looking to expand my library of phonograph related material. As for selling this machine, I'll have to see if I'm lucky enough to snag the other one. I don't have the room for two nor do I need another. I'll keep you posted.
Bill
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Post by neophone on Dec 8, 2007 18:51:50 GMT -5
It is a lovely machine, that sounds as good as it looks! ;D
Regards, J.
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Post by lukewarmwater on Dec 8, 2007 20:51:01 GMT -5
Bill -- I published the book back in '93 and it was a limited to 100 copies. It sold out immediately. I've been thinking about republishing either electronically or via a CD. I'll try to start that project after the first of the year and will let the board know when it is ready. "Ol' No. 2" is very prototypical. It never even had an ID plate . . . I guess the machine was sent out before they arrived from the vendor. It is stamped in three places (the usual two -- on the front mandrel rail and on the cabinet crosspiece behind the bedplate -- as well as on the back wall inside the cabinet where the ID plate should be). The drawers have neither clips nor dividers . . . never had them. Thanks for keeping me in mind re: right of first refusal. I appreciate it! Bill -- I'm adding this to my original post: Here's a photo of the early Model L reproducer on 'Ol' No. 2'. It bears no 'L' designation stamp and has a flattened fishtail weight and an unusual large hinge block. The diaphragm pattern is stamped differently than later L's as well. This is the reproducer that was sent out on the very first I-A's. It was withdrawn within a month as being "unsatisfactory" allegedly because it wore the records, and was replaced by the Model M. In practice, I haven't found this to be true, although I suspect if there were problems with record wear, it would have been caused by the larger, heavier weight and the odd hingeblock. Currently, there are only two of these reproducers known and a third one unverified that was anecdotally on eBay about 6 or 7 years ago. The late Aaron Cramer had the only known example of an M with a flattened fishtail weight on a I-A in his collection. I'm not certain of what happened to it since his passing. Luke W. Luke W.
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Post by lukewarmwater on Dec 9, 2007 21:20:10 GMT -5
Just a post to call attention to the fact that I'd modified the post above. Luke W.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2007 6:28:49 GMT -5
Man, I wish I could find a machine like that. Nice one Bill.
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Post by maroongem on Dec 10, 2007 14:43:12 GMT -5
Luke,
Thanks for the pic on an extremely rare reproducer. Very interesting hinge block!!! Is this spring loaded like the latter ones? I couldn't see one in the pic so perhaps they were a later addition? I wonder if these reproducers were really the culprit of premature record wear or just the poor composition of the 4M wax Amberols.
Bill
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Post by lukewarmwater on Dec 10, 2007 15:03:13 GMT -5
No spring. I think the added weight in combination with the brittle wax may have been the complaint. I wonder if wax Amberols have "seasoned" over the years. I have a number of wax Amberols that are NOS, and I haven't noticed wear or sound degradation despite repeated plays (I've had them since the mid-80's) with both types of L's, M's, O's R's and S's. Perhaps the wear complaint was relative to how new the cylinders were. Luke W.
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Post by maroongem on Dec 10, 2007 16:03:07 GMT -5
I know one of the Amberol's biggest complaints was the extreme brittleness. The last 2M wax in the 10000 block were the same material as well. Living in the north, we have temperature changes that the Amberols don't seem to care for. I've found them shattered or cracked in their boxes or have had them shatter when I've slid my two fingers inside to remove them from the box. Just the temp. difference of my fingers in relation to the cylinder has done this. Because of this, I seldom buy them unless they are rediculously inexpensive, or can't be had on a later BA.
Bill
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Post by MT Phono on Dec 14, 2007 10:54:17 GMT -5
Put me on the list of people who want your machine! Absolutely beautiful. The Lyre-grill I-A has to be on the top of most collector's wish list.
How/where was this machine found - antique store, auction, collector, etc?
GREAT find.
Do any of you guys have web sites that show your collections?
Scott
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Post by maroongem on Dec 14, 2007 12:43:21 GMT -5
Thanks, Scott!
Heck, I'm gonna have to conduct a lottery for this machine! This came from a CO-OP shop up here in the White Mountain State. I don't yet have a web site for my machines, but I've seen yours. What gorgeous machines, especially that Hexaphone!!!
Bill
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steve
Full Member
Posts: 130
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Post by steve on Dec 14, 2007 20:31:46 GMT -5
Hi Bill,
The wax amberol wax batches of 2 minute records are random, the earliest one I have is 10120 and 10570 that I have is the regular wax. The wax amberol wax records in two minute sound good when in excellent condition, when they get worn they have a lot of surface noise and the chip and crack very easily. Luke has a good point, when new the cylinders must have been softer. I have heard even the brown wax are harder now and hold up better. Too bad he used the wax amberol wax, cylinder 10303 by Billy Murray Its moonlight all the time on Broadway is one of the wax amberol wax records and are found worn or broken and that seems to be the only record that has this recording.
Steve
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Post by lukewarmwater on Dec 16, 2007 10:42:21 GMT -5
Put me on the list of people who want your machine! Absolutely beautiful. The Lyre-grill I-A has to be on the top of most collector's wish list. How/where was this machine found - antique store, auction, collector, etc? GREAT find. Do any of you guys have web sites that show your collections? Scott Reminds me of the time I brought a fellow collector with me on a house call to look at an Opera. The seller and I were still negotiating the price when the "friend" I brought along jumped in and said "Well, if you don't want it I'll take it for that!" 'Nuf sed. There are so few gentlemen left in this world. Luke W.
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Post by maroongem on Dec 16, 2007 11:36:17 GMT -5
Hi Bill, The wax amberol wax batches of 2 minute records are random, the earliest one I have is 10120 and 10570 that I have is the regular wax. The wax amberol wax records in two minute sound good when in excellent condition, when they get worn they have a lot of surface noise and the chip and crack very easily. Luke has a good point, when new the cylinders must have been softer. I have heard even the brown wax are harder now and hold up better. Too bad he used the wax amberol wax, cylinder 10303 by Billy Murray Its moonlight all the time on Broadway is one of the wax amberol wax records and are found worn or broken and that seems to be the only record that has this recording. Steve Steve, "It's Moonlight All The Time On Broadway" can also be found on Zonophone 5593-B (rel.1909) I'm still cataloging my 2M Edison, so I can't tell you my highest number in wax or the newer material. I'll keep my eye out for either format by Murray. Bill
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