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Post by jdavis on Jul 5, 2009 18:41:04 GMT -5
Not a profound question, but something I've wondered about for a while. Did Edison advocate playing the DD machines with the lid open? All the pictures I've seen from "Tone-Tests" have the lid up. I think most of mine sound better open. Then we get to the LP machines -- There was a substantial lip that basically sealed the turntable compartment when the lid was closed. The grill over the horn had a series of holes cut into it that actually restricted the area of open grill. The guy who teaches violin-making here at IU explained to me (with lots of physics terms) that by compressing the sound waves within the compartment, amplification would be achieved -- like the "f-holes" on the top of a violin. It's my understanding that Edison was trying to increase the volume of the LP disc's. Then we get to the Edisonic machines -- I have a "Beethoven" (no lip around the lid) & have only seen one picture of a "Schubert" with the lid open: appeared to have the same lip as the LP machines. I thought the motor/horn compartment was the same on both. Why the lip on the "Schubert"? (Actually, I tend to play the "Beethoven" closed -- it's loud enough! Like I said, nothing profound -- just wondering. All my profound questions were answered when I got the DD "I Know Where the Flies Go"! Thanks, Davis.
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Post by rocky on Jul 5, 2009 19:11:54 GMT -5
I don't know what Edison recommended. However, I prefer to keep the lid up on my C-250 and C-450 when I listen to Diamond Discs. They sound better. On the other hand, I lower the lid when I listen to the Victrola, as the needle hiss is prominent.
Rocky
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Post by melvind on Jul 5, 2009 19:47:26 GMT -5
In my experience the needle hiss from a DD is just as prominent as a Victrola. At least that is true on all the machines I have ever played. I usually always close the lid on both types of machines.
Dan
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Post by matty on Jul 5, 2009 19:56:41 GMT -5
I normally leave the lid up myself, unless it's an etched label with really bad surface noise. I kind of like the extra sound you get from the reproducer with the lid up.
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Post by maroongem on Jul 6, 2009 17:48:22 GMT -5
I also play my DD machines with the lid open and my Victor non-Ortho machines as well, but I do have to deal with the needle hiss as Rocky mentions. I find that the DD machines don't really have this annoying by-product. I do close the Ortho lids as suggested and the needle hiss is mostly gone, but I think a lot of what the Ortho soundbox has to offer is lost too. I suppose it's all a matter of taste and tolerance.
Bill
EDIT: I just checked an Edison pamphlet for DD Phonographs (Setting up and operating) and it does not specify the lid up nor down.
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Post by tarheeltinkerer on Jul 6, 2009 21:05:51 GMT -5
Ironic, considering women don't come with instruction manuals and I'm pretty sure the toilet seat ALWAYS has to be down.
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Post by rocky on Jul 6, 2009 22:40:59 GMT -5
Tonight I played several records on the VV-VI, which has no lid. Yes, the needle hiss was pronounced, but I reminded myself that I was not listening to a modern record on modern equipment, and put aside the contemporary obsession for perfect, noise-free recordings. Surface noise was part of the package 90 years ago. The phonograph is as good as new, and I listened to my records and enjoyed them--music, hiss, and the low fidelity of acoustic recordings.
Sure, we all want our phonographs to be in perfect working condition, but sometimes "perfect working condition" does not represent the era's state-of-the-art sound quality. What I listened to tonight was exactly what the average person with a modestly priced Victrola listened to during the '10s, with all its flaws. It's far from perfect, but it's authentic. And it was fun!
Rocky
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Post by maroongem on Jul 7, 2009 0:06:55 GMT -5
Tonight I played several records on the VV-VI, which has no lid. Yes, the needle hiss was pronounced, but I reminded myself that I was not listening to a modern record on modern equipment, and put aside the contemporary obsession for perfect, noise-free recordings. Surface noise was part of the package 90 years ago. The phonograph is as good as new, and I listened to my records and enjoyed them--music, hiss, and the low fidelity of acoustic recordings. Sure, we all want our phonographs to be in perfect working condition, but sometimes "perfect working condition" does not represent the era's state-of-the-art sound quality. What I listened to tonight was exactly what the average person with a modestly priced Victrola listened to during the '10s, with all its flaws. It's far from perfect, but it's authentic. And it was fun! Rocky Bingo! And cast aside your pitch pipes and other paraphernalia because this is supposed to be fun. Bill |
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Post by bostonmike1 on Jul 7, 2009 19:00:36 GMT -5
Bingo! And cast aside your pitch pipes and other paraphernalia because this is supposed to be fun. Bill I second that opinion. Michael |
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Post by maroongem on Jul 9, 2009 18:58:21 GMT -5
To be truthful upon looking at the header again, I thought I was at home and remembering what I was told to do with the toilet seat...............
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Post by larryh on Jul 10, 2009 7:58:37 GMT -5
Interesting question here! I was just playing the S 19 in the Living room having moved it in place of the larger C 19. It fits in tone and scale much better so far.
As to the question at hand, normally I think I like the lid down. And with Victors and other mica and metal reproducer types generally I prefer that sound. It seems cleaner to me.
Normally I admit out of habit I close the Edison lid also. I too have seen those photos always showing the lid up, but then if I were selling it which Edison was, I would probably want to show off the interior as well as exterior. After reading this question this morning, I set myself in front of the phonograph and proceeded to listen to the same passages with lid down and lid up. And yes, I think I agree that the lid up is superior on the Edison. Perhaps the reason behind this is that contrary to the other types, the Edison horn chamber is open all around and the sound from the vibrating horn is able to be projected from the top as well. In fact seated I could hear the sound sort of floating up off the open top and directed by the lid. Almost as if you had a internal and external horn in one machine. The tones were wider and more airy sounding. When the lid is closed the effect is somewhat, but slightly different. You get a more concentrated effect with a single source for projecting the sound forward. I think in the past I liked that effect, somehow went with the "victrola" sound in my mind. But the justice to the music is finer up I now would say.. Thanks for the question. Your never too old to learn.
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Post by estott on Jul 19, 2009 7:25:22 GMT -5
For me it doesn't seem to make much difference on DD machines, at least on mine- if I close the lid the needle hiss finds its way down into the horn chamber. My Orthophonic sounds better with the lid closed. On machines with mica diaphragms I find it's a mixed bag- closing the lid mutes the needle hiss but I think I get more sound with the lid open. With my Cheney I DEFINITELY get more volume with the lid open, but it has some sound leakage issues in the tone arm.
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