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Post by phonogfp on Mar 13, 2013 21:22:59 GMT -5
Originally the finish was smooth and shiny. With age and temperature extremes, the original finish can alligator. Sounds like someone overcoated it, but you did the right thing. Denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner might make the job a bit easier if you're going to do the entire cabinet.
George P.
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Post by lucius1958 on Mar 13, 2013 22:14:11 GMT -5
Certainly you can reduce the alligatoring quite a bit by rubbing with a very fine (000) steel wool pad, moistened with denatured alcohol, and a few drops of oil to lubricate the pad. Be very careful around the decal, though. Then you can repolish with shellac, using a lint-free cloth pad, moistened with thinned shellac and oil (as above: look up "French polish"). As for the veneer: the underside veneer is a secondary wood, not mahogany, and not really suitable. Your best bet is to check around with furniture restorers, and see if they have any mahogany scraps; you can then trim the ragged edges and carefully fit the veneer in. (In my case, the veneer damage was much worse, and I had to remove the damaged areas entirely, lay on new underlay and veneer, and match the finish as well as I could). Oh, and when you look for a new reproducer, remember to specify a gold finish.... Good luck with your restoration! BillS PS: Here's a link with some 'before'and 'after' photos: forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11496&start=0
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Post by joernone on Mar 13, 2013 23:08:27 GMT -5
Thanks again, everyone. I just knew someone had slapped a coat of shellac on this puppy. It was badly done, so yours truly, fixer of all cabinet finish irregularities, shall expertly correct it. BTW...does $149.00 for a rebuilt gold DD reproducer with a good original stylus sound reasonable? I'm thinking it probably is, but since I have zero experience with these things... Regards, John
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Post by maroongem on Mar 14, 2013 3:41:49 GMT -5
John,
I'm assuming this is coming from reputable parts/repair dealer so that is about average. Could you find one cheaper, say on eBay? Sure, but there would more than likely be no guarantee on the stylus, which is the most expensive part to replace. I don't think you could do much better for one that is ready to go.
BillF
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Post by joernone on Mar 14, 2013 15:31:12 GMT -5
Once again I thank everyone.
Next question: With the expectation of lifting the entire phonograph assembly out of the cabinet this weekend, I've allowed the springs to completely wind down. When done with the inspection, cleaning and whatever else is needed, approximately how many crank handle turns will it take to wind things back up...without overwinding it, of course. I ask because I've never done it.
Also, someone talk to me about how/where to obtain a key for the locks on the lid and record storage door.
Regards, John
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Post by phonogfp on Mar 14, 2013 16:38:59 GMT -5
John,
An Edison 2-spring motor can be wound approx. 60-70 crank revolutions. However, to start, I'd wind it 25-30 revolutions and let it run down. Then wind it 40-50 revolutions and let it run down. This will allow the mainspring grease to redistribute itself after sitting around for years. Then perhaps wind it all the way. You'll feel the resistance gradually increase as the mainsprings reach their limit. Go gently. The crank will eventually almost stop moving; this means the motor is fully wound. I hardly ever wind up a 2-spring motor to its limit, but you should be able to do so. If a mainspring is damaged, you want it to break during your "trial run" - not when you're playing it for friends or family. Once you know the mainsprings are good, you can just wind it 40-50 revolutions for everyday playing if you prefer.
One other point: it's quite possible that the mainsprings will chug the first few times you wind it up. Again, the old lubricant has settled in one spot and is not allowing the springs to uncoil gradually and uniformly. This condition often goes away with a few days' use, but sometimes further intervention will be necessary. You can cross that bridge if and when you come to it.
The key you want for your C-250 is reasonably common, and is in the shape of two dolphins. By searching eBay for "dolphin key" you'll see many of them. These are a tad expensive - - they'll probably be cheaper at phonograph shows.
George P.
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Post by joernone on Mar 14, 2013 18:06:20 GMT -5
You're right about the ebay asking prices of those Dolphin keys. I believe I'll pass for now.
Next question: Will the gold Edison decal in the lid stand up to clear lacquer finish without crinkling? The modern repro vintage radio decals do very well, no problem at all.
Regards, John
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Post by phonogfp on Mar 14, 2013 21:00:05 GMT -5
The original Edison decal should not be affected by a clear lacquer finish being applied to it.
George P.
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Post by lucius1958 on Mar 15, 2013 1:52:44 GMT -5
John, An Edison 2-spring motor can be wound approx. 60-70 crank revolutions. George P. Odd: I've counted over 100 revolutions on mine before it's fully wound.... BillS
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Post by phonogfp on Mar 15, 2013 7:02:16 GMT -5
Bill, You're absolutely right. I was going on memory, and clearly my memory on this point was faulty. I just tried it and went to 118... George P.
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Post by joernone on Mar 15, 2013 14:14:10 GMT -5
I knew there was going to be work to this. Let's split the dif. 109 cranks. ;D
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Post by maroongem on Mar 15, 2013 18:44:59 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry about over-winding it. When you feel a stiff resistance, you'll know when to stop. As an aside, in the original manual that came with each machine, the Edison factory stated: NOTE---Rewinding after each selection is not necessary, but it will generally be found more convenient than to allow the phonograph to run down completely before rewinding.As far as the dolphin key, this style of key was very popular on other types of lock type cabinetry other than the Edison phonograph and is not a rare key until some idiot puts "Edison Phonograph key" as the selling point on FeePay. The key should be about 2.5" long and the bit dimensions is what is critical. This is one of my keys from a C-250 so you can get an idea of what shape the bit is.
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Post by lucius1958 on Mar 17, 2013 22:53:31 GMT -5
BTW: If you're still having trouble removing the drawers, pull them all the way out and tilt them upward; that will disengage them. (I wish I had known that when I was bringing mine home)... :-)
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Post by joernone on Mar 18, 2013 11:40:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the drawer removal info. I still haven't gotten around to removing them; I've instead been removing shallac. The plan was to lift the entire unit out of the cabinet this past weekend, but it didn't happen. Too many other things consumed my time. So instead of trying to hurry up and sandwich the removal in among all the other chores, and maybe damaging something, I decided to let it ride until next weekend. I appreciate all the info you folks have been providing. It's enabled me to get on board a whole lot faster.
Regards, John
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Post by joernone on Mar 26, 2013 15:48:08 GMT -5
C250 update: For those who've been following along...yesterday I received a rebuilt gold colored reproducer from George Vollema in Michigan. I felt confident the phonograph was in serviceable condition, so I placed a record on the platter, gave the winding handle a few cranks and walla...the unit plays perfectly. I'm very happy about it Next comes a repro wooden speaker grill from Gramp's Attic. It'll be ordered this weekend. Also, in the next day or two I plan to post a vid link here showing it playing away. Yeah, I know...big whoop, huh?
John
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