borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Oct 22, 2012 11:47:04 GMT -5
Happy 100th!!! Woot Woot!!! what about the Dimaond Disc, I have some that are about that age too.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Oct 22, 2012 11:44:56 GMT -5
They probably used lamp oil it will wipe a Gold Molded clean of the recording. I have several Gold Moulded cylinders where people had recorded on the very end after the song was finished. Home recordings should be saved as these are ethnography even if American English, as each section of the country has a slightly different character. I am just not for shaving anything off, as these are unique and of more historical significance than the moulded recod it originally contained.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Oct 22, 2012 11:22:13 GMT -5
PughPhonos Thank You. The quest for information on blanks and record manufacture has been met with scorn and ridicule. First you have to find the documentation, and to do this you have to know the players involved, and the main research on Phonograph cylinders is Jonas Aylsworth,D.A. Dodd, Walter Miller, Charles Wurth and Theo Wagemann. And for Columbia Adolph Melzer, and Mr Fargo. As you said, I concentrate on the making of the medium rather than artist or song, although I do make recordings, the blanks are what I work on most. And I take suggestions and complaints very seriously and try to make improvements upon suggestions of customers as my blanks must last a long time to hold important documents. I am one person and my annual blank output has been from 500-1300 blanks per year making a grand total of about 12,000-13,000 pieces. Many collectors still insist that the 1888 records are yellow paraffin, however this material will not stand up to many playings, If you go to the Thomas Edison Historical Park and look at the 1887 Ezra T Gillaland machine, and the early 1888 pre-perfected phonographs, you will find blank records I made corresponding to the formulations in the Aylsworth notebooks of the time. The blanks I make are based on the formulations by Mr. Aylsworth from about 1898 for Edison records. Yes I am very slow at making these blanks and records. I live in an apartment, so If it is winter, I have to have a window open with a fan, as I have to make wax inside, and There are some summer days when the humid conditions cause problems with the wax, early fall, and spring are my prime times of blank making, and most orders are from September to January when I am not able to make them as efficiently, as the neighbors are not happy with the fumes of the wax, which are quite strong and produce a white powder everywhere, from the vapors of the wax, and not to mention a fire hazard, you must never leave the wax un-attended as it is molded at very high temperatures. A few collectors have spoiled my book idea to come to fruition, by attempting to steal and duplicate my wax, and so now I have to keep my whole process a secret, as I have too much money and time invested to give such research away, this may be why the developers did the same thing. The formula itself will not make good blanks, it is how the cooking process is performed and that certain processes need to be performed at exact temperatures and times, and if they are not, even though all is measured, and correct the end result will be poor. Blanks have to sit around for awhile, to make sure they do not fog too much, a little is OK, as anyone can look at a mint Gold Molded record, and see the very light bluish white coating on the surface inside and out of the cylinder, which goes away when the record is played, and does not return because of the age of the record. I have also been met with problems because of my Mohawk and lack of a PHD, how dare I be able to make such a thing and at such a young age (I started research on wax when I was in first grade.) And how dare I record modern music groups on the cylinders. I actually make more blanks and records for the recording industry,musicians, public museums and the U.S. government than collectors., about 80% of my production goes to studies in ethnography and language, 15% to musicians and performance artist and 5% to phonograph collectors. I think that the most fair way of performing my task fairly is to only accept orders, but not any payment until the order is finished, I never know when a technical problem will set me back, a little thing like a chipped shaving cutter will set me back a long time, as you can't make cylinders with out a sharp sapphire knife and I have to shave half the blank away to make the finished product.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 19, 2012 20:49:04 GMT -5
Color has no bearing on age. I make blank metallic soap cylinders and the first ones out of the batch are a cream color, and by the time the batch is used up the same batch of wax produces dark brown, almost black blanks, I have repeated this many times on many boards, I feel like a broken record (pun intended) LOL. but I guess if you have never made brown wax blanks, then how would you know? The metallic soap wax from which brown wax cylinders are moulded , oxidizes because the molding temperature is well above 350 degrees F. Granted in the old days, they made quite considerable amounts of compound, about 1200 lbs batches, while this cooking took a long, time, there was so much mass, that when divided between the smaller molding kettles, the wax was enough that the color was not so marked of change, as if you made the initial batch in small quantities however if you use a more gentle heat and cook it over a longer period of time, where the wax does not smoke, you will get lighter colored cylinders. Color is Not attributed to different formulas, what I mean hear is the fact that the compounds of Edison and Columbia brown wax cylinders were so similar as to not vary that much in content from one batch to another. When I make a batch of the aluminum soap from which brown wax is made, I use a Ohaus laboratory balance and try to keep the batches consistent with an accuracy of one tenth gram. I could make and mold cylinders for you to prove this and I have some photographs of cylinders I have made I have made about 12,000 of them. Not very much I am sure but enough to learn from non the less.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 2, 2012 14:23:55 GMT -5
I really hate this pitting one blank making artist against another. All of us, who make cylinder recording blanks are friends! I have examples of new Paul Morris, and Chuck Richards blanks, and I send Paul Morris, and Chuck Richards samples of any changes in blanks that I make, we discuss in private blank making shop talk, Chuck Richards and I have discussed details of blank making hours and hours on the phone and in person. I think it is good to have a variety of blanks for different recording purposes, I have been known to use Morris, Borri and Richards blanks in recording sessions, it depends on what I am recording. I have known Paul Morris since the early 1990s, when I was a teenager, we have met at Union, he is a wonderful person, and a mentor. Making these things takes lots of time and patients so you should appreciate all of us who burn ourselves, and breath in the unhealthy fumes I do not see you guys doing this to make you a medium to record on! My hat is off to Chuck Richards Paul Morris, and me. My own product improves from constructive points, from customers,that I take very seriously, and sometimes caused panic attacks however the bitchings out I get do make them better, and all of us do this. I have included a recent photo of my totally re-tooled process blanks, they are nothing like the old blanks I made. I have been producing the new ones since May, and have made 70-80 of the new ones since then. They come out of the mold very thick so there less chance of surface defects, they also have a nice finished flat end. One cylinder in the photo is an original Edison brown wax blank. Good recording compound has to be processed so similar that it is a matter of your opinions and personal choice of which blank is better. I like all of them, original, Paul Morris,Chuck Richards or my own. Attachments:
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 2, 2012 13:22:32 GMT -5
Wax Amberols do have a great sound when they are in like new condition. I still do not know the composition fully of them. I have always found that molded wax records do not warp as much as celluloid records do. The key to the wax moulded record, more true running qualities lies in the fact they were put on tapered mandrels for two hours, to contract. I was scolded by collectors of this point as being off for making this claim. r I have read it from the production notes for the early gold moulded production notes, and in the 1912 American Machinist article for the spun molded records. You can see what I am talking about on page 17 in the article "Manufacturing Wax Cylinder Records" in the 2011 October/November "In The Groove" republication of the may 23rd, 1912 American Machinist article from The Henry Ford collection. The scolding was the fact that the records had to sit for two hours, how could 80,000 record be produced in a day then if the records had to sit for two hours on these cores?? The answer, is there were thousands of these cores made, they were simple light, sheet metal tapered tubes and the records were set on these on a tray holding 24 10,000 sereis GM or 4 minute Wax Amberols, They were stacked in a room for two hours, and then taken out, and a hand press, pressed all the cores out of the records, and there you have a nice true moulded metallic soap record. Edison's team had experimented with making molded records as early as May of 1890. We many never be able to tell, which records were made by a molded process, however it is noted that sub masters for brown wax records were actually made from a molded process, not all of them but the records used for pantographing purposes, there were two reasons, the process was not perfect yet, and so it was used for making duplicate dubbing masters only, and two, the artist wanted to record by the round to make more money, and objected for a long time to making only one master. The early was of making molded duplicates was a tight fitting brown wax blank, put in a warm mold, and a mandrel forcing the hot blank to to the grooved walls of the mold, removing the tapered plunger, and the blank cooling, and the moulded record comping out. Molding was worked on first by Dr. Schulze-Berge around 1889-1890. The Wurths father and son worked on moulded records about 1898 and it was the George W Johnson records that were experimented with for duplication. About 1900 small scale moulded production was set up and by 1901 for commercial purposes. The first high volume moulded records were made by a molding machine having a wax tank underneath, a long brass tube with a plunger, the moulding being on top of the tube, and a hollow mandrel that went to the bottom of the tube, and wax filled the space above the mandrel, and a plunger pulled up the charge of wax into the top mould, and the whole plunger assembly taken apart and these molds, the ends trimmed, the interior reamed, and put in a cooling box, the records come out and are put on warm cores for two hours. Later on, not sure the exact date, but whenever the harder wax was used, 1908 the spinning process of wax injected into a bell shaped spinning mold, and lathes finishing the inside, and again put on the mandrels to contract.
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Sept 2, 2012 11:59:26 GMT -5
The belt should not be so tight as to inhibit the speed of the machine, and not loose enough to slip and cause warble, I usually adjust them a little past where it no longer slips, the machine should play steadily all the way to the end of the spring .
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borrilabs
Junior Member
"The Crazy ""Misguided Hobbiest"" who dared to make authentic cylinder records with spiral cores.
Posts: 57
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Post by borrilabs on Jul 18, 2012 22:11:27 GMT -5
This is Shawn Borri who makes new blanks. There is a few fellows who offer recording services on youtube. I used to have an electrical dubbing service, but the equipment is very delicate and is down so much, I do not have time to make the recordings, I only record live acoustic performers anymore.
I have taken all the constructive information from customers, and collectors over the years, and also knowledge gained from many years of research in making the wax masters, and since May, have changed all the equipment to make a much better product., the wax is as close today as you can get to an Edison blank. I make standard size blanks, but can also make Ediphone blanks too, that work with the Ejectomatic. The new blanks for home entertainment are 2.190" in diameter, and 4.5" long (they fill the entire mandrel) , the maximum an Edison will take, so you can record a few practice runs before you shave down to 2.150 which is about the thickness that most of the commercial cylinders were recorded at. They also have the spiral core like the original blanks, My two new molds, one makes left handed spiral and the other a right handed spiral. The blanks come out of the mold at 2.43" in diameter, which is thicker than an Ediphone blank, they also are 7" long when they come out of the mold. The reason for this is to decrease surface defects, I also filter the wax, so that they are as quiet as can be. I am always open to suggestions on how to make them better. I need not post my website, a quick search for phonogram or cylinder recording blank will find my page. I have made a few thousand pounds of wax in the last 13years, although not much in comparison with a day at the Edison plant I think quite a bit in the 21st century.
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