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Post by gibsonj on Nov 10, 2011 11:00:43 GMT -5
Hey Bill
Yes, you worked on 2 or 3 of my DD reproducers. But, none of those had broken links as I recall. Do you have an approach for this?
Hope you're well!
John
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Post by gibsonj on Oct 28, 2011 9:28:24 GMT -5
I haven't run across too many folks who have successfully repaired the silk link. I did read one attempt using dental floss, but not sure of the result. As the reproducer gaskets on these 90 year old machines are typically hard and brittle by this time, a rebuild is likely to produce the best performance, and there are many suppliers of replacement diaphragms with silk links installed already. Take a good look at your stylus through a jeweler's loupe to check its condition.
If others have a method for rebuilding silk links, I'd also be interested. I have several original Edison rice paper laminated diaphragms with broken links that I'd like to repair as well. I personally think Edison's originals sound better than the reproductions.
Good luck and welcome to the board!
John
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Post by gibsonj on Oct 26, 2011 11:23:38 GMT -5
Hi everyone
Does anyone know if Diamond Disc records will fit in the Pooley ejector style record cabinet? I know the Pooleys were probably made for the Victor 78s, but just wondered if the Diamond Discs were too thick to fit and work properly.
Thanks for any insights.
John
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Post by gibsonj on Sept 1, 2011 14:21:58 GMT -5
Hey folks
I have volumes 1 and 2 of this book by Francis Jehl, published in 1937. Jehl was a laboratory assistant to Edison in New Jersey during his work on the phonograph and electric lighting. Interesting history from the eyes of someone there during the efforts. I have duplicate copies, so thought I would offer to others.
Volume 1 covers the years prior to 1879, which includes the phonograph work. This volume has a cardboard backing. Volume 2 covers the early development of electric lighting, with Edison's distribution methodology being the central focus. This volume has a standard hardcover backing. I would say these volumes are in fair to good condition (no loose pages or markings).
I'd take $15 for them, plus shipping. If anyone is interested, just pm me.
Thanks. **SOLD**
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Post by gibsonj on Jul 8, 2011 10:49:19 GMT -5
Hey guys,
My readings suggest that Edison made a big deal about his diamond stylii lasting for the life of the machine and/or owners. This was one of his marketing differentiators with Victor, his main competition. He also emphasized less wear to his records from his reproducers, compared to the steel needles of the competition.
No doubt there is wear to diamond stylii from use. But, I suspect dropping reproducers did more resultant damange to stylii than record play.
John
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Post by gibsonj on Jun 30, 2011 13:59:37 GMT -5
Hi Gary and welcome I would say that you got a good deal. No way that I'm aware of to confirm original cabinet and mechanism match. If you don't find mis-matching holes in either the cabinet or the bedplate mounting, then I'd say its probably original. Take a look at the screw heads and see if there's any indication they have been removed. Folks often fail to use the right size screwdrivers when taking machines apart, and it scars up the screw heads. That would indicate at least that the machine had been apart for some reason, not necessarily that it was a mis-matched situation. Model 50 Amberolas are 4 minute machines designed to play Blue Amberol records only. Be sure that the cylinders you got with the machine are Blue Amberols, and not earlier 4-minute black Amberols. The aligator feel to the finish is common after all these years. A good cleaning might improve it some. I use Kotton Klenser myself (see kottonklenser.com/), but I've heard other folks using GoJo (without pumice added) to also get good cleaning results. If that doesn't prove satisfactory, then Eric Reiss in his book "The Compleat Talking Machine: A Collector's Guide to Antique Phonographs" talks about a process call reamalgamation, that essentially dissolves and re-distributes the original finish, which is much preferable to stripping and re-finishing, in my opinion. Good luck. John
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Post by gibsonj on Jun 29, 2011 11:59:28 GMT -5
Jeff
I haven't looked at my model 30 in awhile, but if my memory is right, there were oil holes drilled in the top gear cover to get at the bearings on the end of the governor shaft. The mandrel bearings are exposed.
You're right about access to the lower mechanics. While the earlier 2 minute and 4 minute machines had hinged tops that allowed the top plate and motor to tilt up for access, the later 4 minute Amberolas did not. This might have been purposeful to limit any tinkering--maybe to encourage a service call market. But, there were no "permanent" lubricants in those days, so periodic lubrication was needed.
The spring barrel should have a screw port, I think on the flat side opposite the crank. Its not quite the size of a dime, as I remember. Just remove that screw to open a port in the barrel for adding grease. I would say add a relatively small amount, like 1-2 tablespoons, any way you can get it in there. I have a small grease gun with a thumb-plunger that works well. Again, the idea is to get some new grease mixed with the old, in case the old grease is caking and impeding the spring action. Winding the spring up and letting it run down several times should get some results if its going to work at all.
For oiling bearings and other friction points, I use a micro precision oiler. The pin tip lets you get in close to bearing faces and other close spots like where gears mesh.
Fill me in on your results. I'm sure others may also have advice for finding and eliminating friction sources if cleaning and lubricating still don't get you where you want to be.
John
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Post by gibsonj on Jun 28, 2011 13:50:46 GMT -5
cchaven It might be that years of non-use, dust collection, and old oil/grease build-up are your main problems. A good cleaning and re-lubrication might do the trick for you. I'd take an old tooth brush and some solvent to all the gear faces and bearings. Since your Amberola 30 is a direct drive (i.e., gear driven versus belt driven), you wouldn't have the issue of belt slippage contributing to upper mechanism sluggishness. Don't over-lubricate--a drop or two will do, if you're following Edison's recommendation to lubricate about once a month under normal use. Lube all the gear faces, bearings, pivot points, etc. Check the governor for proper, smooth operation. Careful when the cover is off--the governor spins up quickly and doesn't feel real good to the fingers. Sometimes, the mainspring grease has hardened with time and non-use. Worst case, you may have to do a mainspring tear down and re-lube, but that's a topic for another discussion in itself. Since it seems that you're getting some performance out of the mainspring, my suggestion would be to add some new grease to the mainspring cannister, crank it up and let it run down a few times. This process will mix the old grease with the new, and often restores the spring performance that you need. A lot easier than a tear down. Edison's original formula for mainspring grease was equal parts of #2 flake graphite and petroleum jelly. Here's a couple of links to lubricants and parts that might help: www.antiquephono.com/motoroil.htmwww.wyattsmusical.com/dd.pdfHope this gives you a starting point, and check back as the symptoms change. John
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Post by gibsonj on Jun 24, 2011 10:26:48 GMT -5
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Post by gibsonj on Jun 21, 2011 11:42:22 GMT -5
Rachael
Welcome! Here are my opinions. Others may fill in additional details.
(1) Is it ridiculous of me to think that I might play modern records on it? First of all, the geometry of early acoustic recordings is different from modern recordings. You would not hear the fidelity of the recording on Edison or Victrola acoustic machines, and you would damage the modern recordings while trying.
(2) Once you crank, how long will it play? Really strength of spring dependent. Early Edison cylinder machines had spring strength designed to at least play through a 2 minute or 4 minute recording, dependent on the machine type. As spring motor machines evolved, the length of playing time also increased. By the time Edison's Amberolas and Diamond Disc machines appeared, it was not uncommon to get through 2 or 3 recordings easily without a rewind.
(3) Will any old record play on any phonograph? The short answer is no. Edison records were specifically made to play exclusively on Edison equipment by virtue of their being vertically cut, as compared to Victor records being laterally cut, and made to play on Victrolas. Note that Edison machines used a sapphire or diamond stylus sized to the groove of the Edison recordings. Victor machines used steel needles mainly, also sized to the groove of the Victor records. Edison stylii were intended to be permanent, completely reusable, and having minimal wear to the records. Victor needles were intended to be single play, not reusable, and would have wear consequences to recordings if reused.
(4) Is it true you should replace the needle after only 2 plays? Better to replace after every play on Victrolas. Also, remember the cardinal rule. Never play Edison thick records on a Victrola, and never play Victor records on an Edison Diamond Disc. The only exception to the cardinal rule, is with the use of a lateral-cut adaptor on Edison Diamond Disc machines (such as a Kent), that replaces the Edison reproducer with a Victor type soundbox. I think there may also have been adaptors made to allow Edison Diamond Disc records to be played on a Victrola. Of course, none of this was sanctioned or encouraged at the time by either Edison or his competitors.
Hope this helps your thinking.
John
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Post by gibsonj on Jun 1, 2011 8:44:16 GMT -5
Welcome to the board! With the end-gate, this would be an Edison Home Model A or B, 2 minute machine.
John
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Post by gibsonj on Apr 26, 2011 8:25:02 GMT -5
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Post by gibsonj on Mar 25, 2011 11:05:00 GMT -5
Well, you didn't specify which cylinder machine you have, but I am assuming it must be an earlier 2 minute machine for Gold Molded cylinders, or a later 4 minute machine for Black wax Amberol cylinders.
The early 2 minute Gold Molded cylinders were manufactured with organic materials, which made them susceptible to the attraction and growth of mold. The mold actually consumes the wax, leading ultimately to the cylinder becoming non-playable. Humidity control, or lack of, was the primary culprit.
The 4 minute Amberols are notorious for breakage as you describe. I have found them sensitive to temperature changes, so its important to acclimate them to room temperature. If there are any hairline cracks, then pressing them too firmly on the mandrel will often cause them to split and break into multiple pieces. Obviously, this black wax type will not accept much of a shock, so dropping one can typically introduce cracks that might not be immediately noticeable, and will get progressively worse, and ultimately, end up as you describe your experiences.
The Blue Amberol 4 minute cylinders are an early celluloid successor to the black wax cylinders, and were marketed to be of superior strength and longevity. The Blue Amberols have a plaster core around which the celluloid was formed. However, the inconsistencies with temperature and humidity over the years caused the plaster core of many Blue Amberols to expand, which resulted in cracks in the celluloid. I have arrested such cracks to prevent them from spreading into the record grooves and affecting play, by drilling a small hole at the end of the crack, which stops its progression. Sometimes, the plaster core swells to the point that a cylinder cannot be placed far enough on the mandrel for play. To address this problem, a cylinder reamer is available from many phonograph supply houses to "re-size" the plaster core to the appropriate size and taper.
Hope this helps.
John
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Post by gibsonj on Dec 7, 2010 13:08:38 GMT -5
Dennis
Your machine was likely dropped at some point, and that would make me think that the case would have been severely damaged as well. Any evidence of that, or maybe someone swapped to a different case?
Since the motor frame is cast, it would require some special welding skills. Maybe could be done. You could try a product called J-B Weld, but not sure that would produce a strong enough bond to hold, given the pressures from cranking the spring up.
You might be looking at picking up a replacement frame off Ebay. Motor assemblies show up there often, and are not too expensive, particularly if they have not been cleaned up and don't "show" well (like appear really rusty and dirty). Since you would be looking only for a replacement frame, you might be able to buy a complete motor assembly like this for cheap, and get to where you need to be.
Good luck.
John
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Post by gibsonj on Nov 22, 2010 8:45:30 GMT -5
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